Agreed. So does that mean they are betting the fallout from not doing the right thing for the early customers will be less than the fallout from doing the right thing?
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Here is another great example how the crippling affects my driving. I drive from Los Angeles to Wisconsin. Stopped in Vegas at the V3 supercharger at the Linq. I needed to charge a little over 90% to make it safely to St George (the next supercharger on my way). It took well over an hour! On my way out of the parking lot I was charged $9 for staying 12 minutes over the max allowed 1 hour. So not only do I get screwed with excessive charging times, I also have to pay for that.
Driving this trip n the winter already takes extra time to charge because of the higher energy consumption. With Tesla's battery crippling it now adds about 5-6 hours extra.
Driving this trip n the winter already takes extra time to charge because of the higher energy consumption. With Tesla's battery crippling it now adds about 5-6 hours extra.
My fear is they feel* they cannot afford to do the right thing in either scenario since the fix is essentially the same.
* Since Tesla is mission-driven, I would expect at least some folks in Tesla to be rationalizing that protecting the company and its ability to execute on the mission is more important than doing right by impacted owners, hence the bunker mentality, high-powered lawyers, etc. Personally, I think this is a dumb approach. This kind of thing will catch-up with them eventually. Folks will be forgiving of the tech not working as expected, but less so of a cover-up.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
So I guess the way to game that $9 is to charge for 30 minutes, drive around the block and charge for 30 more minutes.
Not my idea of fun but as long as there isn't a line at the supercharger and you can get your stall back (or grab a different one) it remains an option to avoid the $9 fee.
Curious George
Member
I find such logic very odd. Tesla is a public company. It can raise money to do the right thing for the customers.
Anyone can come up with these excuses to not pay for things.
Elon Musk is worth more than $20B, but people are worried about his wallet.
It is really something.
So, a couple of things--the key one is we don't know the scope of the problem--is it only a relatively contained group like gen 1 cells or is every 18650-based pack at risk. The former is something the could probably buy their way out of with the latter is an existential crisis. The second thing is that the markets will lend Tesla money on the expectation that they will use it to make more money. They will not lend Tesla money to help them dig out of a hole of their own making, especially if they don't know the scope of the downside risk.
The damage is two-fold--the first is the immediate costs of fixing the issue--that you can quantify and manage through, even if its something like giving everyone a new 100kWh pack. The tougher bit is long-term damage to the brand in terms of loss of sales and loss of trust in the brand--much harder to quantify. Would you buy a car from company whose core IP is now suspect and has been engaging in shenanigans to hide the fact? Competitors would have a field day with that.
The damage is two-fold--the first is the immediate costs of fixing the issue--that you can quantify and manage through, even if its something like giving everyone a new 100kWh pack. The tougher bit is long-term damage to the brand in terms of loss of sales and loss of trust in the brand--much harder to quantify. Would you buy a car from company whose core IP is now suspect and has been engaging in shenanigans to hide the fact? Competitors would have a field day with that.
KArnold
Active Member
Don't intend to hijack the thread but I've not heard of a time limit before. I know they charge $ if you stay plugged in once charged, but they charge for > 1 hour actively charging? Could you just unplug/plug back in to reset that timer?
I have yet to even put a credit card on my Tesla account. I'd have a hard time paying fees just because Tesla gifted me with chargegate. With their incompetence in the industry I doubt they would even notice if I didn't pay. They sure don't seem to know squat about their best customers.
Tesla isn't charging, the hotel gives you one hour of parking for free. If you are in the lot for more than an hour they charge you to get out.
You would have to leave the parking lot and come back in to reset the hour.
My tin foil hat thought is that this affects all 85 packs at some point. The packs that have been through a lot of DC charging develop the issue sooner.
So they crippled the packs that are too far gone, and changed DC charging profiles for everyone so that don't get to that point.
The shitty part is that this is all secret instead of tesla just owning their mistakes. Love the car, hate the company.
So they crippled the packs that are too far gone, and changed DC charging profiles for everyone so that don't get to that point.
The shitty part is that this is all secret instead of tesla just owning their mistakes. Love the car, hate the company.
Chargegate affects all nosecone cars.
Battery gate most drastically affects 85s. However we don’t know if or how it’s affecting others.
Battery gate most drastically affects 85s. However we don’t know if or how it’s affecting others.
As the owner of a 2016 70D with a 100% of 196miles I can confirm that it affects others than the 85s. I have just done 20,000miles in six months and have spent a fair amount of time at superchargers when going long distance, going from 10% to 90% takes over an hour. Was hoping for better when I bought it, but had I known I would still have bought it.
I know the whole thing sucks big time for some people who need to do regular long distance journeys, but for your average commuter it hardly matters. The car is charged and ready in the morning, I cover the 100miles to work and back on autopilot, no dramas. Sure I‘d like more range but the 20 or so miles that went down the gurgler with the update are neither here nor there, it doesn’t make a real difference due to supercharger spacing here in Australia. Plus lifetime free supercharging, yay!
The slow charging on trips is annoying, specifically when you have to cover 1,500 miles, but I now know what to expect and plan accordingly. Acceleration is down a bit, too, really heart breaking in a country with a 65miles/h speed limit...
Just in case this sounds a little bit too happy for this thread, I really hate, and I mean HATE that the bloody car is so soft. This aluminum dents at the slightest provocation, I park in the dark corners of the car park away from other cars and hesitate to use the frunk because of the tinfoil lid.
But yeah, pretty impacted by charge and battery gate and still pretty happy...
I know the whole thing sucks big time for some people who need to do regular long distance journeys, but for your average commuter it hardly matters. The car is charged and ready in the morning, I cover the 100miles to work and back on autopilot, no dramas. Sure I‘d like more range but the 20 or so miles that went down the gurgler with the update are neither here nor there, it doesn’t make a real difference due to supercharger spacing here in Australia. Plus lifetime free supercharging, yay!
The slow charging on trips is annoying, specifically when you have to cover 1,500 miles, but I now know what to expect and plan accordingly. Acceleration is down a bit, too, really heart breaking in a country with a 65miles/h speed limit...
Just in case this sounds a little bit too happy for this thread, I really hate, and I mean HATE that the bloody car is so soft. This aluminum dents at the slightest provocation, I park in the dark corners of the car park away from other cars and hesitate to use the frunk because of the tinfoil lid.
But yeah, pretty impacted by charge and battery gate and still pretty happy...
I have a 1/2014 model S 60.. I'll have to charge to 100% and see what ideal range it shows ... The other day when it was in the upper 90% for charge (don't know exact percent), but it showed 203 "ideal" mile range..
On the app it shows 211 ideal miles at 100% charge..
On the app it shows 211 ideal miles at 100% charge..
Why did you waste all that money on S70D. It sounded a Leaf can do all what you wanted and more.
A Chevy Bolt goes farther and charges faster than my Tesla for a quarter of the price new. Everyone here bought a Tesla because we believed them when they claimed to warranty their cars so we wouldn't be worried about the things discussed here. We were wrong but we didn't know Tesla lied when our cars were new.
It may be tougher than you realize. I had a shopping cart role down a hill and slam into the driver's door at an angle while I was sitting waiting for my wife. I got out expecting a huge dent and there wasn't even a scuff. Used the frunk frequently when grocery shopping since the store had superchargers. Never had an issue with the frunk either.
That would seem reasonable but there are low mileage batteries with very little supercharging that have been voltage capped and higher mileage batteries with a lot of supercharging and no capping.
Yes my bolt started at 238mi rated and so did my X75D
2.5 years in Bolt still has close to its original range and GREAT Regen (one pedal drive) whereas my Tesla has lost 11 percent.
But again Chevy decided to be a little more conservative with its BMS; for example limiting the top end to 4.17V.
Last year I did a 1000 mile comparison (L2 charging only) in the middle of a cold Winter and the Tesla was getting 60% efficiency (accounting for every KWH put in) vs the Bolt at 75%.
Now having lost another 11 miles since the update fiasco and already seeing worse Regen in the mild cold I dread running this experiment again.
Ferrycraigs
Member
Similar things have been reported in UK forums. It tends to be charges from the owner of the car park rather than by Tesla. Some car park owners, wanting to exercise control over who can use them, others in shopping outlets where there is a parking time limit. Sadly in UK the fines tend to be between £60 - £100. Normally there is also a 'no return within x minutes' clause, preventing a quick drive round the block.
Worth checking whether your parking fine is from Tesla or some Parking Company. In UK we have found the best way to appeal is via the car park owner (explaining that you were charging) rather than a letter to the Parking Company. They get many letters per day and they are not known for their patience.
Ferrycraigs
Member
I feel very much the same. It’s not so much what they have done to our cars (and I still think that may be unlawful without our permission) but much more so that they have done it secretly, without saying. What possible reason could there be for keeping quiet other than trying to hush it up.
I am now very suspicious they have introduced a new cap. However high I set my charge limit, whether using the App or on the Touchscreen, it now refuses to charge to 100%. For a couple of weeks it wouldn’t charge above 98%-99%. Now it says Charge Complete at 96%. I have even tried stopping and restarting the charge, but it steadfastly refuses to charge above it. Again Tesla seem to be implementing something they may think is good for our batteries, but not so important that it’s
