Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[JRP3]

Musk isn't going to walk away from his baby. If you think the person who risked his entire fortune on two companies likely to fail is motivated by money you haven't been paying attention. You also seem to discount the fact that if this all plays out with massive fines and a massive recall the stock is going to be hurt anyway, so even if your suggested motivation were correct it would not be the right play. I don't know what's going on internally at Tesla but I doubt Musk is such a short sighted idiot.

 

[omarsultan]

I agree that Musk will not walk away, but, IMO, the best think he could do Tesla is hire a COO a la Gwynne Shotwell (SpaceX) to handle the day-to-day and free him to be the visionary and focus on big things. Tesla's missteps nearly always come from operations problems not vision and strategy and I would guess there are not enough hours in the day for him to pay the type of attention to operational details that a company of that size and complexity needs.

 

[Chaserr]

I doubt Musk is such a short sighted idiot

This is why it's clear Musk knows and approves of everything involved in batterygate. He isn't an idiot and this is too big an issue for some anti-Tesla enclave within Tesla to have managed to perpetrate under his nose without anyone catching on and cluing him in to the issue, especially after they have released several public statements on it and possibly even designed a completely new battery architecture to remedy the issue. He is fully aware of the issue, the hows and whys Tesla has created this problem, and the implications it has on the company itself in the future. Batterygate is perpetrated under his direct approval

 

[omarsultan]

Meanwhile, I get a daily cry for help from my car--will be curious to see if the new pack gets there before it totally goes wheels up..

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I wonder if I will get a final message like the Mars Opportunity rover

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My car is escalating its concerns:

Seriously, the battery came in yesterday and they are working on it today, so I should be able to report back detail regarding the new battery later today or tomorrow morning.

 

[SmartElectric]

Tesla is pushing very hard to make cars as short lived and disposable as phones are today. People are totally going with it. In a way, crippling older cars helps that effort. The old cars are even lesser compared to the new ones and people want to 'upgrade'.

Wrong. Tesla has improved our classic 2013 S 85 with incredible updates in just the past few years. I don't fault anyone here for pushing them to be better, more transparent, etc, but to claim the cars are disposable is hyperbole.

 

[Gixx1300R]

Wrong. Tesla has improved our classic 2013 S 85 with incredible updates in just the past few years. I don't fault anyone here for pushing them to be better, more transparent, etc, but to claim the cars are disposable is hyperbole. Just get on with your lawsuit and let us know how it goes, hope the result is a win for everyone. Suggest reducing the over exaggerated statements, it reduces trust in useful statements you do make.

That is correct but at the same time Tesla has devalued the classic 2013 S85 ( mine is devalued by at least $17,000) I have lost 17KWH due to this fiasco and it is said that 1KWH is worth $1,000 in a used Tesla

 

[jkennebeck]

That is correct but at the same time Tesla has devalued the classic 2013 S85 ( mine is devalued by at least $17,000) I have lost 17KWH due to this fiasco and it is said that 1KWH is worth $1,000 in a used Tesla

So if I've lost 10kWh AND ludicrous mode performance AND rapid supercharging rates.....

 

[Chaserr]

I believe Tesla set a price for Ludicrous in the $5000 range for your car? On my car Performance was $20,000 and the battery capacity upgrade was $10,000. Since that is what all parties agreed to when we paid and there was never a renegotiation offer to buy or sell it back again the agreed on price is still original MSRP. Tesla's already agreed on refund value for what they took out of your car should be somewhere near $35000.

 

[JRP3]

This is why it's clear Musk knows and approves of everything involved in batterygate. He isn't an idiot and this is too big an issue for some anti-Tesla enclave within Tesla to have managed to perpetrate under his nose without anyone catching on and cluing him in to the issue, especially after they have released several public statements on it and possibly even designed a completely new battery architecture to remedy the issue. He is fully aware of the issue, the hows and whys Tesla has created this problem, and the implications it has on the company itself in the future. Batterygate is perpetrated under his direct approval

Despite your self certainty you don't know to what degree he's involved. Possibility:

Elon: I hear there may be some problems with some older battery packs?
Minion: Yeah, there are a few, we have sent out software updates to mitigate the problem and are working on a permanent fix.
Elon: OK, keep me updated.
Minion: You bet boss. We might tweak the warranty wording a bit to clarify coverage.
Elon: Alright.
Minion: (Whew), scurries away...

 

[omarsultan]

Well "incredible updates" might also be a bit on the hyperbolic side. If anything, the "updates" in the last year of so have reduced range, supercharging speeds and regen, so not really a positive. Perhaps all done with good reason, but the bottom line is my S has less utility for me than when I bought it, or even a year ago.

I don't think there is an explicit desire to obsolete cars, but I do feel a certain lack of care in Tesla's product management--its fun to do new stuff but thoughtful product management also takes into account your existing customers as they are your seed corn. A simple example of this is the performance of SW on MCU1, with the web browser being the poster child. While its great to roll out features the will generate buzz, its also worthwhile to protect the investments of your current customers. As a point of reference, Apple iOS 13 is backward compatible to the iPhone 6s which came out in 2015. If Apple can put the effort in to help me preserve the utility of my $300 phone, I don't thinks its asking too much for Tesla to put the same kind of effort into preserving the utility of my $100K vehicle.

In my mind, a more egregious example is the time between release of AP1 and AP2 on the Model X. Early Model X buyers were paying premium prices and there was no reason that Tesla could not have feature proofed the HW a bit as I assume by that time they knew that the single-camera setup was not going to cut it.

 

[Chaserr]

Despite your self certainty you don't know to what degree he's involved. Possibility:

Elon: I hear there may be some problems with some older battery packs?
Minion: Yeah, there are a few, we have sent out software updates to mitigate the problem and are working on a permanent fix.
Elon: OK, keep me updated.
Minion: You bet boss. We might tweak the warranty wording a bit to clarify coverage.
Elon: Alright.
Minion: (Whew), scurries away...

Tesla's General Counsel: We're breaking some big laws here.

Elon: either doesn't hear his legal team (unlikely) or says "Stay the course"

Tesla's General Counsel: I can't be party to this I quit.

Tesla's Next General Counsel: We're breaking some big laws here.

Elon: either doesn't hear his legal team (unlikely) or says "Stay the course"

Tesla's General Counsel: I can't be party to this I quit.

Tesla's Next General Counsel: We're breaking some big laws here.

Elon: either doesn't hear his legal team (unlikely) or says "Stay the course"

Tesla's Next General Counsel: I can't be party to this I quit.

...


We're assuming Elon isn't an idiot. That means he knows what's going on at his company when it comes to decisions that have ramifications as large as these, or we're revising our opinion of Elon's intelligence. It's his General Counsel's job to keep him appraised of these issues. A lot of people have had the same discussion over these legal problems with Elon, we know of several GCs that have for certain.

 

[mjmiron]

This is why it's clear Musk knows and approves of everything involved in batterygate. He isn't an idiot and this is too big an issue for some anti-Tesla enclave within Tesla to have managed to perpetrate under his nose without anyone catching on and cluing him in to the issue, especially after they have released several public statements on it and possibly even designed a completely new battery architecture to remedy the issue. He is fully aware of the issue, the hows and whys Tesla has created this problem, and the implications it has on the company itself in the future. Batterygate is perpetrated under his direct approval

I know me again but when they replaced my battery in 11/19 it had to get corporate approval so pretty sure he knows.

 

[omarsultan]

So, a bit of prelim data on my pack replacement--the car is back online so I can pull remote data. Based on the data pulled by Remote S, the replacement pack is 72 kWh and rated range is 240 miles. This puts me approximately back where I was pre 16.x. They charged the pack to 70% on an 80A HPWC so I cannot tell anything regarding SC charging speed or max capacity.

 

[islandbayy]

So, a bit of prelim data on my pack replacement--the car is back online so I can pull remote data. Based on the data pulled by Remote S, the replacement pack is 72 kWh and rated range is 240 miles. This puts me approximately back where I was pre 16.x. They charged the pack to 70% on an 80A HPWC so I cannot tell anything regarding SC charging speed or max capacity.

Change the charge rate to 100%, they usually wont mind, and it will be great to get a good baseline.

 

[First EV]

Wrong. Tesla has improved our classic 2013 S 85 with incredible updates in just the past few years. I don't fault anyone here for pushing them to be better, more transparent, etc, but to claim the cars are disposable is hyperbole. Just get on with your lawsuit and let us know how it goes, hope the result is a win for everyone. Suggest reducing the over exaggerated statements, it reduces trust in useful statements you do make.

How strong is that koolaid? The updates this last year have been literally the opposite. Reduced charge speed, reduced regen, non functional browser, reduced battery capacity. But hey we got some new games yay! I am out of koolaid can I have more please!

 

[Droschke]

So, a bit of prelim data on my pack replacement--the car is back online so I can pull remote data. Based on the data pulled by Remote S, the replacement pack is 72 kWh and rated range is 240 miles. This puts me approximately back where I was pre 16.x. They charged the pack to 70% on an 80A HPWC so I cannot tell anything regarding SC charging speed or max capacity.

No 1014116-00-A? I guess they only made one.

 

[JRP3]

We're assuming Elon isn't an idiot

Except your scenario paints him as one for ignoring your presumed advice from his lawyers. Repeatedly.
As for people who might be motivated by stock price, the people most impacted by it in a meaningful way are all the employees.

 

[Chaserr]

We know without any doubt Elon has repeatedly heard that advice from his many GCs he's churned through in the last year. It's their literal job to inform him, and each replacement would do their duty to repeat the conversation as soon as they became aware of it and its repercussions that are still unrealized. We don't know if they are ignored or simply not heeded, but we know Elon is aware of the issue. I don't think that makes him an "idiot" like you say and I thought I made it clear it's unlikely he ignores his General Counsel. "Stay the course" is an intentional decision to continue breaking the law, not the result of ignoring lawyers. I still maintain this is all perpetrated under his direct approval - it has to be otherwise you're right and my estimation of his intelligence has to be revised downward. We may not like what he's done but our disagreement doesn't make him an idiot. He can do us wrong and be an intelligent person.

 

[omarsultan]

No 1014116-00-A? I guess they only made one.

I assumed that when they told me its a reman pack. No invoice in email yet so I'll have to wait until I pick it up in a couple of hours before I can share part numbers.

I wonder what will happen with the good modules from my old pack--whether they will end up in someone else's reman pack or they will just take the older chemistry cells out of circulation all together.

 

[Yurand]

Wrong. Tesla has improved our classic 2013 S 85 with incredible updates in just the past few years. I don't fault anyone here for pushing them to be better, more transparent, etc, but to claim the cars are disposable is hyperbole.

You're really enjoying that fart mode, eh?