Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[johnman10]

There are all kinds of remedies that wouldn't damage Tesla too badly. Would you accept a nice new Chinese manufactured LR Model 3 as a settlement? maybe a Y?

My wife was ready to buy a model 3. I threatened her with a divorce if she would do that. I would personally want a fix, sell this car and never listen to the name Tesla again. They are in the same group of trustworthiness as VW for me.

 

[alloverx]

Tesla should just issue 100,000 new shares and replace all these batteries at risk.

 

[RobPet]

Took my annual trip to Austria for skiing last week. It's about 1000km away.

My car is not voltage capped (368 km at 100%) and has about 7-8% degradation after 160,000km. I charged to 100% before leaving and installed software 2020.4.1 a day before.

Usually I take 6 or 7 supercharger stops. Overall it took me about ~45 minutes longer overall charging than usual. Chargegate is definitely a thing. However, I did still see speeds of 120kW+ at low SoC (5-10%), up to about 20% it's still above 95 kW and then tapers off (50% SoC is about 60kW, 70% is about 35-40kW).

Arrived with about 20% remaining at my destination, charged it up with a 22kW AC to 90% and parked it (indoors) for the remainder of the week.
I rarely checked the SoC of the car as I just want it sleeping. However, after 7 days and packing the car the SoC was at 74% and a "maximum battery charge level reduced" error was on the screen.

Drove 150km to a Supercharger. Arrived with about 10%. It showed I used about ~35 kWh / 65%, or extrapolated a maximum capacity of ~54 kWh. The supercharger wouldn't allow it to charger further than 19% (and 15-19% took 20 minutes), as well as showing "charging completed".

I called roadside assistance and they saw a highly imbalance in the pack. They advised me not to supercharge further and try to make it to the service center in Munich. I used two destination chargers to get there. At that point it wouldn't even charge above 7% anymore.

Had to get a rental car (ICE) to get home, the fee will be reimbursed if it's a warranty problem (which it should be). They wouldn't give me a Tesla loaner, as they don't have European wide insurance, so I wouldn't be allowed to take a Tesla loaner outside Germany to the Netherlands . Even more annoying is that I will have to drive 800km with the rental, then 800km back home to pick the car up.

My pack has part number: 1014114 - 00 - E.
Funny enough, the battery is at 0% now (24h later) and still parked where I left it (6%) after telling them specifically the drain is enormous. Their problem now...

So, even though everything seemed fine at first, the pack just gave up. Will keep you guys informed about any developments.

Edit: Couple minutes after typing this I received a call. New battery is ordered and hopefully it will arrive early next week. The car should be ready soon after then too. Everything (including the rental) covered under warranty.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Took my annual trip to Austria for skiing last week. It's about 1000km away.

My car is not voltage capped (368 km at 100%) and has about 7-8% degradation after 160,000km. I charged to 100% before leaving and installed software 2020.4.1 a day before.

Usually I take 6 or 7 supercharger stops. Overall it took me about ~45 minutes longer overall charging than usual. Chargegate is definitely a thing. However, I did still see speeds of 120kW+ at low SoC (5-10%), up to about 20% it's still above 95 kW and then tapers off (50% SoC is about 60kW, 70% is about 35-40kW).

Arrived with about 20% remaining at my destination, charged it up with a 22kW AC to 90% and parked it (indoors) for the remainder of the week.
I rarely checked the SoC of the car as I just want it sleeping. However, after 7 days and packing the car the SoC was at 74% and a "maximum battery charge level reduced" error was on the screen.

Drove 150km to a Supercharger. Arrived with about 10%. It showed I used about ~35 kWh / 65%, or extrapolated a maximum capacity of ~54 kWh. The supercharger wouldn't allow it to charger further than 19% (and 15-19% took 20 minutes), as well as showing "charging completed".

I called roadside assistance and they saw a highly imbalance in the pack. They advised me not to supercharge further and try to make it to the service center in Munich. I used two destination chargers to get there. At that point it wouldn't even charge above 7% anymore.

Had to get a rental car (ICE) to get home, the fee will be reimbursed if it's a warranty problem (which it should be). They wouldn't give me a Tesla loaner, as they don't have European wide insurance, so I wouldn't be allowed to take a Tesla loaner outside Germany to the Netherlands . Even more annoying is that I will have to drive 800km with the rental, then 800km back home to pick the car up.

My pack has part number: 1014114 - 00 - E.
Funny enough, the battery is at 0% now (24h later) and still parked where I left it (6%) after telling them specifically the drain is enormous. Their problem now...

So, even though everything seemed fine at first, the pack just gave up. Will keep you guys informed about any developments.

I have a November 2014 S85 that has been SW "updated" to 2020.4.1 during it's stay at a Tesla recommended bodyshop and i hope to pick it up today or tomorrow.
My battery pack is also 1014114 - 00 - E
I sure am curious to see what it reserves me after this "update"...

 

[Spacey73]

Interesting point on your range and age of S85, mine is almost the same range but is exactly the same age. 119k miles (190k km) and has a 100% charged range of 230miles (368km)

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Mine has 113k km and lately i've been getting 370km of typical range at 100% SOC

 

[johnman10]

Interesting point on your range and age of S85, mine is almost the same range but is exactly the same age. 119k miles (190k km) and has a 100% charged range of 230miles (368km)

Are you sure it has the same range? Have you checked the usable capacity in a way other than the lies the car shows in capped cars? Cause mine is still showing the same typical even after capping. Simple way to find out is the following: charge to 100% and check the regenerative. Mine is at 20kw. It used to be absolute zero before the capping.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Are you sure it has the same range? Have you checked the usable capacity in a way other than the lies the car shows in capped cars? Cause mine is still showing the same typical even after capping. Simple way to find out is the following: charge to 100% and check the regenerative. Mine is at 20kw. It used to be absolute zero before the capping.

How can one check the regenerative?
I have ScanMyTesla app

 

[RobPet]

Interesting point on your range and age of S85, mine is almost the same range but is exactly the same age. 119k miles (190k km) and has a 100% charged range of 230miles (368km)

It barely changed between 30k km ago and now though. About 1-2 km.

As typing this. Just received an actual call instead of a text.
New battery is ordered and hopefully it will arrive early next week. The car should be ready soon after then too. Everything (including the rental) covered under warranty.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Do keep us posted and let us know what kind of battery did they use has a replacement

 

[Spacey73]

Good idea on the regen, it should not allow for anything to go back in just as my Leaf and i3 did. I have seriously low charging rates though (took loads of photos for my service on Feb 14th) after a 150 mile to super chargerdrive I was getting 52kw with 51miles (roughly 23% in battery).

Sometimes when overtaking at higher speeds I get a yellow warning triangle on the power meter just next to the '300' kw mark, then a few yellow dots in that area for about 3 mins.

Nov S85 119k miles

 

[johnman10]

It barely changed between 30k km ago and now though. About 1-2 km.

As typing this. Just received an actual call instead of a text.
New battery is ordered and hopefully it will arrive early next week. The car should be ready soon after then too. Everything (including the rental) covered under warranty.

I envy you. They called you? Really? Wow. Customer service leapfrog.

 

[RobPet]

I envy you. They called you? Really? Wow. Customer service leapfrog.

Hah, yeah I am just a surprised. Could be a German thing?

To be fair, the people at the SeC were really helpful too. Taking me on a 15min drive to pick up the rental in Munich and getting me on the way again. The roadside assistance was really helpful too. Calling me after about an hour as well, they saw that I managed to get to the service center and asked me if everything was fine with the rental, and if they could do anything for me, wishing me a safe trip back home etc.
There are good people working for Tesla for sure

 

[Droschke]

Took my annual trip to Austria for skiing last week. It's about 1000km away.

My car is not voltage capped (368 km at 100%) and has about 7-8% degradation after 160,000km. I charged to 100% before leaving and installed software 2020.4.1 a day before.

Usually I take 6 or 7 supercharger stops. Overall it took me about ~45 minutes longer overall charging than usual. Chargegate is definitely a thing. However, I did still see speeds of 120kW+ at low SoC (5-10%), up to about 20% it's still above 95 kW and then tapers off (50% SoC is about 60kW, 70% is about 35-40kW).

Arrived with about 20% remaining at my destination, charged it up with a 22kW AC to 90% and parked it (indoors) for the remainder of the week.
I rarely checked the SoC of the car as I just want it sleeping. However, after 7 days and packing the car the SoC was at 74% and a "maximum battery charge level reduced" error was on the screen.

Drove 150km to a Supercharger. Arrived with about 10%. It showed I used about ~35 kWh / 65%, or extrapolated a maximum capacity of ~54 kWh. The supercharger wouldn't allow it to charger further than 19% (and 15-19% took 20 minutes), as well as showing "charging completed".

I called roadside assistance and they saw a highly imbalance in the pack. They advised me not to supercharge further and try to make it to the service center in Munich. I used two destination chargers to get there. At that point it wouldn't even charge above 7% anymore.

Had to get a rental car (ICE) to get home, the fee will be reimbursed if it's a warranty problem (which it should be). They wouldn't give me a Tesla loaner, as they don't have European wide insurance, so I wouldn't be allowed to take a Tesla loaner outside Germany to the Netherlands . Even more annoying is that I will have to drive 800km with the rental, then 800km back home to pick the car up.

My pack has part number: 1014114 - 00 - E.
Funny enough, the battery is at 0% now (24h later) and still parked where I left it (6%) after telling them specifically the drain is enormous. Their problem now...

So, even though everything seemed fine at first, the pack just gave up. Will keep you guys informed about any developments.

Edit: Couple minutes after typing this I received a call. New battery is ordered and hopefully it will arrive early next week. The car should be ready soon after then too. Everything (including the rental) covered under warranty.

Thanks for feedback. Would you elaborate on your AC/DC charging habit?

 

[Spacey73]

Not only Tesla doing this

France Fines Apple $27 Million for Slowing Down Old iPhones

 

[BigNick]

That's basically the worst possible way to respond to fires. It's a non-response and the most illegal response they could have taken. If Tesla had taken no action whatsoever, and cars kept burning, it would be a legitimate defense to say "WE DIDN'T KNOW!" - but if they knew about fires, and did something to mitigate them in secrecy, all the while keeping as many fire-risk cars on the road as they possibly can achieve - all to maintain their malicious secrecy - it's a criminal conspiracy of the highest order, possibly the worst in automotive history, and there have been some egregious crimes that put people in danger before.... but none that publicly acknowledged the problem while simultaneously attempting to keep anyone from being notified of the danger.

We can speculate that the fires and the caps are related, but if they are Tesla is still trying to kill everyone that hasn't updated and that takes the issue from failure to report on time to premeditated attempted murder. The problem isn't addressed until 100% of every impacted battery has had teh owner notified and given a time for their vehicle to be repaired with a part equal or better than original. There is no wiggle room in the law to keep people in danger for the sake of conspiratorial secret keeping.

There are thousands of cars with the potential to spontaneously combust, if there ever was one.

MP3mike marked this post "read" in his unique way

"Let 'em burn. It's cheaper to pay the lawsuits than to fix the cars."
Not a direct quote, but words to that effect were said by someone at Ford four decades ago.

 

[avesraggiana]

oh I’ve been taking scanmytesla pics since January. I usually 100% charge once per week. I will continue to do this until end of April then I’ll update and do another 100% charge. I’ll have like a good 10-12 captures of “pre-update” showing the actual voltage and capacities and be able to show what they are post update.

Trust me, I’m on top of this because I’m already teedering on barely being able to make it to destinations as I typically arrive at a supercharger with <20 miles remaining. If they cap me and my range drops, I’ll have to add a 3rd supercharger stop to my weekly work commute which is a massive inconvenience.

From door to door, my current commute distance (upstate ny to nyc) is 255 miles. There are superchargers at the 68 (Binghamton), 164 (tannersville), and 238 (Kearny) mile points. On a 100% charge (229 miles, 64.7 “usable full pack), I skip the first one, but make it to tannersville with <20 miles remaining driving at 70mph all highway with no heat or A/C on. So yea I barely have any room. If I need heat or if weather is bad that gets really really tight. My car has shut down with 7 and 12 miles rated range remaining so I have to be careful. Sometimes I need to draft 18 wheelers to make it.
Anywho, I charge back up to 135 rated to make it to Kearny (always giving myself a large buffer given how inaccurate the actual real world ranges are compared to rated). It does hit 118kw charge rate when SOC is like 5-10% but drops fast to about 80kW then to 60kW before I even reach 50%. It’s slow. Very painfully slow. I charge to about 200 miles at Kearny (this takes about 75 minutes). That gives me enough to get to nyc then 3 days later back to tannersville. The car typically loses about 30 miles rated range over 3 days. I leave nyc with 150-160 miles which is barely enough to make it to tannersville. I can’t make it from tannersville back home even on a 100% charge because there is some good uphill that burns 20 miles range. (Also on the flip side on the commute to nyc I do get this “extended free 20 miles range” due to the downhill driving lol so in reality my car barely gets maybe 145-150 miles on a 100% charge if roads were flat). So I also have to stop at binghamton in the way back.

I say all this to say that in an ICE car I can do this 243 mile commute each way in 3.5 hours. In the Tesla, because I need 2 stops, it takes me 5.5 hours. If I update and they nerf the pack, this will likely extend my commute another 45-60 minutes each direction which is just beyond absurd. I might as well go back to an ICE car. Also related this past summer I drove 1250 miles to Orlando which took 29 hours due to all the required charging stops. In an ice car that would’ve taken 18-19. So I’m frustrated already. If my pack gets nerfed it’s going to be the last straw.

Man, I thought I had a rough weekly commute. Mine is only 141 miles EACH WAY, for a total roundtrip of 282. My car also sits at work for anywhere from two to four days before I return, and loses 2% to 4% battery charge.

I drive a March 2017 build S75D. It hasn’t been nerfed yet as far as I can tell, but probably because of my weekly supercharging, I’m noticing that the charge rate has decreased quite noticeably.

 

[johnman10]

How can one check the regenerative?
I have ScanMyTesla app

Well what I had in mind (and what i tested) does not need the scanmytesla. You just need to charge to 100%. The regenerative reading on the cluster display (energy) should be flat out. You should get no regenerative braking at all when at 100% and the car should roll without any resistance

 

[AmpedRealtor]

New battery warranty now specifically excludes changes to battery performance due to software updates https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

So they could sell a 400 mile range car, reduce it to 250 and there would be no recourse.

Just because Tesla writes it doesn't mean it is legally sound. I can write a contract between you and me that says I get to do whatever I want with respect to our contract, in perpetuity, as solely determined by myself. No judge would ever uphold such broad-reaching language. I believe Tesla's warranty language is overly broad and would be struck down by a court of law.

Forgot to add....if you purchase a function for the car it stays with the car (FSD, Battery uncorking, Supercharging)

No, they do not. If you trade your car back to Tesla, Tesla strips all of these features from the car so they can charge for them a second time. This includes cars that Tesla takes in trade and sells to other dealers at auction. What you buy from Tesla is not yours, apparently.

Not only Tesla doing this

France Fines Apple $27 Million for Slowing Down Old iPhones

Apple was cited for not informing consumers about this aspect of the software update. Would this not be case law in France for a similar suit over Tesla doing the same thing? Perhaps someone needs to test this out. EU has far stricter consumer protection laws and it would seem that would be the best place to try a suit over #batterygate and #chargegate.

 

[boywonder]

I’m always heartened by stories like those of the support given to @RobPet by Tesla support and SC during what must have been a nightmare experience!

It’s amazing how a few good people in an organisation make all the difference.

I wish the same customer-centric focus was on display from the senior Tesla exec.