I believe this is what some of us have a hard time to believe. A re-manufactured pack is not a new pack and there is no way for us to know it has modules with newer cell chemistry just because it says a "newer rev." It's just better than a dead pack, for sure. There are many reported instances of the replaced packs being replaced again (and again). Of course that single instance of a 350V/~89kWh replacement pack we have heard about is another story.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
I believe this is what some of us have a hard time to believe. A re-manufactured pack is not a new pack and there is no way for us to know it has modules with newer cell chemistry just because it says a "newer rev." It's just better than a dead pack, for sure. There are many reported instances of the replaced packs being replaced again (and again). Of course that single instance of a 350V/~89kWh replacement pack we have heard about is another story.
You mean BMS failed to protect the battery?
And, if I may request, before you disagree please read up fully on why we have BMS to start with.
I do no see that... 7-8% degradation over 160k km is typical. AND he was NOT voltage capped at the time battery broke down. He is only guilty of installing new software that finally detects battery failures!
Failures aren't a good thing, but Tesla not being capable of reporting, repairing, or even acknowledging failures us worse. Recent updates moving towards some sort of unexplained new failure mode means they've made some great strides towards whatever failures they were and still are trying to hide from the first 6 months of batterygate. I applaud that progress.
Agreed if the replacement is a newer revision but we don't know that they will always do that. I feel its obvious they are trying to save money and limp the cars past the warranty period regardless of bad PR and customer experience. So it seams obvious that they will use any same size or larger pack that they have that is at the moment working better than a failed pack and not necessarily a newer revision.Well, wouldn't than make them better?. In my case, my reman pack addressed all the shortcomings my old pack--the only outstanding item is SC speed, which I have not had an oppty to test. My point was that if you get a newer pack, even if its reman, it probably has better cell chemistry than the pack it replaced if the reman pack is a newer rev.
Guy V
Member
Worse, if they are saying they can't provide a replacement battery until May they just don't have any available period.
It would make a lot of sense for them to finally be initiating a regularized battery replacement program, with purpose-designed and manufactured replacement packs for it to be a normal cost-effective service.
Without such they make it abundantly clear that the lifetime of a Tesla vehicle is the lifetime of the original battery, and from the only indications that they give, that is currently expected to be about 8-years/150,000 miles.
$24K is not going to cut it, not on an S or X, and most certainly not on a 3 or Y or Cybertruck.
Among the tradeoffs of EV versus ICE that have become familiar, I believe only this one alone, once it is widely known, makes the EV, at least a Tesla EV, uncompetitive in the marketplace. It really must be dealt with. Unless that million-mile battery is much closer to production than it appears there is disaster ahead.
Thanks for keep bringing the need for a battery replacement program. Obviously there is none at this point anyone is aware of. Replacing the failed batteries with the used ones is not a "program" the owners would expect from a reputable manufacturer. My fuel tank has failed and the ICE manufacturer is warranty-replacing it with another re-manufactured tank which is good now but will fail later, worse after warranty expiration date. Not acceptable.
The history shows this is another hype. It's just that.
The history shows this is another hype. It's just that.
What's really amazing is we the S and X owners are the ones who provided word of mouth that convinced the 3's to buy their 3. How ironic now they are so drunk on the koolaid they now ignore us or tell us were doing it wrong.
I am curious what warranty the million mile battery will have. Because the original unlimited mile warranty batteries now come with a 150k miles.
If there will be any, it will be meaningless to the owners since the manufacturer gets to define what's warrant-able.
islandbayy
Active Member
I have a Video coming soon. I have 2 cells, compliments of WK057, pulled from a 2014 P85 that had about 15,000 miles on the ODO. In 2016, I did 100 full charge & discharge tests. After that, I charged one cell to 100%, and left it. The other, I drained to what a Tesla car considers shutdown voltage, and left it.
Now, 4 years later, I have pulled them out of deep storage in the bottom of my file cabinet next to my desktop computer that blows it's hot air on it. Once the video is released, crap ton of editing to do yet, you will be very surprised at the results, and battery capacity ;-)
When the recall happens, they will blame us for losing money from the stock price going down. That is the real reason most of them ignore us. The God-King and his obsession with shortsellers doesn't help them see straight
Hi All!
Been following theis thread and others for a fair bit.
Hypothetical here. Please commenton the expected battery degradation/damage from exclusively charging at say 24kW (using an AC surce and the car's onboard converter), with a home charger, vs. exclusively charging at a Supercharger location at the same 24kW, over say four or five years. All other charging variables thesame, charging to SOC, Ambient temp, etc., etc..
If there would be no difference, is there kW rate of charge at which there wuld be a difference in battery damage/degradation, assuming the AC home charger could provide enough current to equal the supoercharger's ability to do so.
Thankyou very much
FURY
Been following theis thread and others for a fair bit.
Hypothetical here. Please commenton the expected battery degradation/damage from exclusively charging at say 24kW (using an AC surce and the car's onboard converter), with a home charger, vs. exclusively charging at a Supercharger location at the same 24kW, over say four or five years. All other charging variables thesame, charging to SOC, Ambient temp, etc., etc..
If there would be no difference, is there kW rate of charge at which there wuld be a difference in battery damage/degradation, assuming the AC home charger could provide enough current to equal the supoercharger's ability to do so.
Thankyou very much
FURY
cpa
Active Member
Mike:
The way my lawyer described mediation to me is that the mediator evaluates the claims and the evidence supporting the claims and the defenses to those claims and then makes an educated and experienced guess as to the chances of prevailing at trial. This person is usually a retired judge or a life-long experienced trial attorney. Yes, this is supposed to catalyze communication but the mediator cannot know how good a case there is if he is left merely analyzing he-said, she-said arguments. He needs some information from both sides that would eventually be discovered and presented at trial for the trier of fact.
To me, arbitration comes into play once the sides have come to an agreement as to culpability.
Say the mediator opines that the class action has a better than 4/5 chance of success at trial. Tesla decides to settle. Tesla offers each of the affected parties $1,000 cash today and another $1,000 off on a slightly used replacement battery after the warranty expires, plus an 8x10, suitable for framing, autographed picture of Elon Musk.
Plaintiff says no. Plaintiff requests new, not remanufactured, replacement batteries within twelve months that carry the same 8-year, unlimited mileage warranty with no funny business software updates down the road.
Tesla counters. Plaintiff counters. Still no agreement. Then the arbitrator steps in to try to get both parties to a reasonable compromise.
If the arbitrator fails, then it is off to court we go.
cpa
Active Member
Tesla focuses on one thing and one thing only. New car sales. Batteries produced will wind up in new cars on the road before they wind up as warranty replacements. There is more sizzle and profit to new car sales than there is to warranty repairs or even to paid battery replacements.
I agree with you: Tesla needs to ramp up a systematic battery replacement method and inventory so that anyone who wants to buy to upgrade or anyone with a warranty repair can have the battery replaced within a week to ten days, max.
But Tesla has operated like a Ponzi scheme since day one; they don't feel as if they need to change their behavior any time soon.
trayloader
Member
faughtz
Model S P85DL
Ferrycraigs
Member
Either the external Chargepoint delivers DC to the battery, or the car’s on board charger delivers DC to the battery. In theory, if the BMS is working properly, it shouldn’t make any difference. At the top end (ie above 90%), whichever option is used, the rate going into the battery should pretty much be the same. Most of the damage comes from heat when using high powered DC. This is why the tapering is much more dramatic on Superchargers than on AC or lower powered DC. The role of BMS is to taper the input so that the heat does not exceed the pre-determined maximum. And it is meant to do this, factoring in the SoC, temperature and any other factor that may damage the cells. Overall, I would say Teslas BMS does a pretty good job and in most batteries this works fine. In some batteries, it appears that too much high powered Supercharging is doing something to the battery, hence initially batterygate then subsequently chargegate. What that 'something' is, is the great secret. I have always found the 'wearing out cells too quickly' theory pretty plausible, but it’s far from the only possibility.
On paper, it shouldn’t matter. I have never read a view that said AC charging did any damage, so in practice I would always prefer AC charging, at any rate, over DC for battery longevity.
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