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SuperCharger - Denton, Tx

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#281
redi said:
I don't recall ever seeing a handicapped Supercharger parking spot. Based on the density of shops, parking spots, a handicapped spot might be the only one you don't find ICE'd here.
Click to expand...

Fountain Valley, CA has one wider spot that has a Tesla-made sign that says something like "please use this space last and leave it available for handicapped placard vehicles." Definitely not the exact text.

It didn't have the universal symbol of access, so it wasn't an official handicapped spot.
 
#284
TXjak said:
If a supercharger stall has a handicap sign, it seems like it would be reserved for the handicapped, Tesla or not. If a Tesla used it and didn't have a handicap tag, might it be ticketed?

John
Click to expand...

If there were no other slots open, I'd use it and stay with the vehicle. I'd stand at the back of the car and move the car if a handicapped person needed the space. If another slot opened up while I was charging, I'd move to that slot.
 
#285
TXjak said:
If a supercharger stall has a handicap sign, it seems like it would be reserved for the handicapped, Tesla or not. If a Tesla used it and didn't have a handicap tag, might it be ticketed?

John
Click to expand...

Bollar is 100% correct, you will be ticketed if you park without proper accessibility signage on your vehicle.
ADA is Federal LAW, mandated and enforced at State and Local Levels as TAS (Texas Accessibility Standards).

I don't know if staying with your car is the correct tact.
Better to not try it and not find out if somebody is having a bad day or not.
 
#287
purplewalt said:
Better to not try it and not find out if somebody is having a bad day or not.
Click to expand...
Staying with your car is NOT a defense. All states have pretty much the same definition of parking. For example, for CA:
V C Section 463 Park or Parking

463. "Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers.
Click to expand...

So yes, you'll be ticketed. However, it doesn't happen often in practice, especially if you behave politely.
 
#288
*Edit again* Obviously I misread the post on the previous page. Not confirmed to be a handicap spot in Denton. Just speculation.

Wait a minute, what am I missing here. A handicapped Supercharger slot? So, essentially they've restricted all non-handicapped Tesla drivers to the three stalls? 25% of the stalls in Denton will be unusable to 99% of the Tesla driving community, that seems a bit odd doesn't it?

I guess I'm really confused. No offense to those disabled, but is it necessary to have a handicapped SC parking position? Handicapped spaces are usually reserved so they are closer to the entrance of stores/restaurants, etc. I would imagine that a handicapped Tesla vehicle would charge in any stall, and then if they wanted to visit an establishment then go and park in the handicap parking spot closest to the establishment they want to go.

Perhaps I'm just missing something. :confused:

*Edited to add* I wonder if that particular supercharger stall will have a different structure so its easier to reach for someone who is in a wheelchair? Just found a good post by another Tesla owner who's wife has a disabled placard:

Making them all accessible is actually preferred by the people who advocated for the ADA; it's called "universal design". Blink should certainly have made all the chargers handicapped accessible, regardless of whether some of the spaces were marked handicapped-only. Their current implementation is not only an overly conservative reading of the ADA, it's a technicality-based reading rather than a "let's try to make things as good as possible for handicapped people" reading.

The need for parking spaces which are disabled-placard-only arises in a very specific circumstance: with access to buildings where there is high demand and the parking spaces frequently fill up, so that non-disabled people frequently have to walk long distances from the parking spot to the building. You don't want to make disabled people do the same thing.

If there aren't very many EVs, and you only have a few EV spots, it should often suffice to put the EV-only spaces near the front door next to the disabled-placard spaces, and to design the spaces with the extra wheelchair-unloading zone which disabled-placard spaces generally have. The small group of disabled people in EVs will happily use the EV spots regardless of whether they are marked with wheelchair symbols. On the rare occasion that the EV spots are full, they will move over to the nearby disabled spots and charge some other time.

Now, if the EV spots are filling up routinely, you need to build more EV spots. And if you build so many EV spots that many of them are a long long way away from the front door, why *then* you need to have handicapped-only EV spots. I don't think this is an issue anywhere yet, though I'm sure someone will pop up and prove me wrong by describing an installation of 100 charging spots.

Tesla should simply make all the supercharger stations handicapped accessible period -- "universal design". This means making sure someone who uses a wheelchair or cane can get in and out of the car while at a supercharger station. This isn't really very hard -- wide spacing between bays, arrange it so that the doors have clear space to open wide and aren't blocked when parked for charging.

(At the moment, the passenger side is more important, because I know the Model S can't really be used by someone in a wheelchair solo. But the Model X probably will be adapted for the disabled, so it's going to be valuable to make sure the driver can get out too. I've seen some people with no use of their legs, but massive upper body strength, swing their wheelchairs out from behind the driver's seat and transfer into them.)

Because the only service being provided by Tesla's Superchargers is, uh, charging, there is no particular need for Tesla to provide *exclusive* wheelchair access spots, because every spot is equally close to, uh, charging. However, if some of the spots are unusable for people in wheelchairs, *then* Tesla will have to start reserving some of the ones which are usable. Which is why they should all be usable, makes it much simpler.

This does show that Tesla should be careful about advertising. If Tesla starts advertising that you can go to a particular restaurant at a Supercharger site while Supercharging, then they might start getting ADA lawsuits if the Supercharger spots have been located way the hell away from the restaurant entrance. Probably nobody will bother them as long as the walking (wheelchair-rolling) paths between the Superchargers and the restaurant entrance are accessible, though.
 
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#289
Holy cow, we are going off the rails here! Just because some of the Denton SC stalls are a bit wider, doesn't mean they will have handicap signage. There are several SC sites around the US I've been to that have normal width and wider width spots, and none of them have had handicap signage.

ADA signage is for businesses, not charging locations. The larger stalls are probably for handicapped access and now possibly a fully laden Model X with cargo rack and/or trailer.
Supercharger etiquette should include not parking in those spots if you don't need to. Save them for others, if possible. If Tesla put ADA signage on a SC stall, it would render it useless for everyone else. That's a lot of hardware to dedicate to the handful of handicapped Tesla drivers that would pass through it. And again, the Supercharger stalls are not a place of business, so ADA does not apply. Now, there might be some local ordinances or one or more handicapped drivers might drive through there and have reached out to Tesla to request some kind of signage. However, I don't see any signs in any of the photos.
 
#291
bollar said:
Fountain Valley, CA has one wider spot that has a Tesla-made sign that says something like "please use this space last and leave it available for handicapped placard vehicles." Definitely not the exact text.

It didn't have the universal symbol of access, so it wasn't an official handicapped spot.
Click to expand...
I've seen that sign at other Superchargers.
 
#295
redi said:
And Connecticut has 5 superchargers now. Sheesh. The entire state of Texas is going to close the year with 9?
Click to expand...

Click on 2015 on Tesla's Supercharger map and it looks like 15 are planned for by year's end (of course, being a newbie, I don't know how accurate Tesla's Supercharger plans have been in the past). Reply #639 by Stenn over in the Houston topic suggests that Victoria will be started soon, perhaps the installation team at Denton or Amarillo will be going down there next.
 
#296
SpiceWare said:
Click on 2015 on Tesla's Supercharger map and it looks like 15 are planned for by year's end (of course, being a newbie, I don't know how accurate Tesla's Supercharger plans have been in the past). Reply #639 by Stenn over in the Houston topic suggests that Victoria will be started soon, perhaps the installation team at Denton or Amarillo will be going down there next.
Click to expand...

You didn't have to say you're a newbie, referring to the 2015 supercharger map as what's planned by year's end gives it away. Those plans have always been more aspirational than informational.
 
#297
SpiceWare said:
Click on 2015 on Tesla's Supercharger map and it looks like 15 are planned for by year's end (of course, being a newbie, I don't know how accurate Tesla's Supercharger plans have been in the past). Reply #639 by Stenn over in the Houston topic suggests that Victoria will be started soon, perhaps the installation team at Denton or Amarillo will be going down there next.
Click to expand...


Welcome to Tesla World of Time...:biggrin:
 
#300
SpiceWare said:
LOL - yeah, I got the impression that might be the case due to the late start of the Model X Launch Event and, of course, how late the release of the Model X itself was. Just didn't think those 2 data points were enough to make the conclusion that running late was Tesla's usual mode of operations.
Click to expand...

The supercharger map at Tesla has changed and evolved, routes come and gone, so many times that nobody with a Tesla pays any attention to it (the Tesla web site [and Tesla, imo] is all about sales to people that don't have a Tesla). In fairness, it is getting denser in the fullness of Tesla time.

supercharge.info and evtripplanner.com are likely the only web site about superchargers that actual Tesla owners pay much attention to. And plugshare for check-ins to see what is blocked/down/working.
 
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