Superchargers super-slow

[wcfinvader]

Perhaps you are right. This might be related to the newer pack design. See here for an example:

Use L2 charger instead of Supercharger when battery is cold with very low SoC

The fact that the supercharger did not provided any power and yet the vehicle charged normally on L2 indicates that it is more than cold temps at play.

I wouldn't have guessed that newer packs would behave differently during supercharging. Silicon the cause? This does clear up some confusion I had about why so many on this thread reported different experiences that we've never experienced. I thought the early A versions with their max 90 kwh charge rate was the only pack that performed different when supercharging. I guess this is one way a classic is better. No taper at low charge at we get 80amps dual chargers vs 72 amps for newer cars

 

[UberEV1]

Possible additional reason for differences observed, building on "Winter" theory . . . Packs are heated to support healthy current flow / discharge performance, but supercharger charging rates are 2~2.5x higher than average discharge rates during driving. Might it stand to reason that battery temp for supercharging needs to be higher than for driving (and thus the longer times to ramp charging power)? Just a thought.

P.S. In my experience with a 2013 S85, supercharging times are fairly consistent (10% to >90% in an hour or so). I don't use the superchargers all that often, nor track the data, but experience has been fairly consistent here in California. Waiting in line, on the other hand, has been a frustration.

 

[brianman]

Can you be more specific than 115+? Did you see above 116 kw?

I'm pretty sure I saw 117 a few times, can't recall if I saw 118 or not. Generally once it reaches 100+ I move to the next task (restroom, snack, whatever).

 

[brianman]

It would seem several different reasons for low charge rates at supercharger.

1. Local power restrictions (grid throttle)
2. Supercharger has internal problem (i.e. Some of the chargers are dead or weak)
3. Car is throttling down do to low pack temperature?

4. Car is throttling down due to some new software program we don't know about maybe to protect battery or maybe just a mistake in programming.

What did I miss?

Every environmental condition and non-software car state.

 

[WARP 10]

Tesla will not give you the vehicle logs because they believe the information is "proprietary." The reason you do not see above 90 kw is because you have an early revision pack which does not support 120 kw charging.

Don't think that's the case. We took a trip from San Diego to Atlanta in late November in our 3 month old S 60 and never saw above 95kW.

 

[alapd]

This seems weird. Supercharged twice this week. At Menlo Park in NJ, got 300 miles/hour. In Tarrytown, NY, started around 140 and went up to 200. Both times the car charged very quick. Have never once experienced anything under 130.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

It would be nice if the system would report if the car is reducing/throttling due to battery temp or if the SpC was throttling/reducing due to issues on the "shore" side.

Exactly. I wonder how many of these are cold or hot pack related slowness?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I don't think it is the cold weather. Others users have reported similar behavior when connecting with less than 5% remaining and not all of them were in cold climates. Tesla updated the supercharger algorithm to significantly slow the ramp up at lower SOC. it is not clear why they chose to do this. It certainly did not use to be this way.

Could it be range mode enabled? That cuts the heat or cooling of the pack and could cause the pack to be out of the ideal SC temp longer ... I never use that setting anymore unless I'm running on fumes to get to my destination... And I immediately disable once I'm back on the charger

 

[SeminoleFSU]

It would seem several different reasons for low charge rates at supercharger.

1. Local power restrictions (grid throttle)
2. Supercharger has internal problem (i.e. Some of the chargers are dead or weak)
3. Car is throttling down do to low pack temperature?

4. Car is throttling down due to some new software program we don't know about maybe to protect battery or maybe just a mistake in programming.

What did I miss?

Car or charger is throttling because either are too hot. Other than that and pairing u covered it

 

[apacheguy]

Don't think that's the case. We took a trip from San Diego to Atlanta in late November in our 3 month old S 60 and never saw above 95kW.

@tyson most certainly has an A battery on his 2012 P85 which is limited to 90 kw.

The refreshed 75 does not appear to accept rates above 95 kw, but this is unrelated. The original 60 accepted up to 106 kw, but the taper kicked in sooner. Go figure.

Exactly. I wonder how many of these are cold or hot pack related slowness?

Cold packs definitely reduce the rate. However, in my experience the pack can never get hot enough to limit the charge rate. Something would have to fail or it would have to be extremely warm, like over 50 C for this event to trigger.

Could it be range mode enabled? That cuts the heat or cooling of the pack and could cause the pack to be out of the ideal SC temp longer ... I never use that setting anymore unless I'm running on fumes to get to my destination... And I immediately disable once I'm back on the charger

Right range mode is definitely a bad idea. But its happened to many users and not all have occurred in cold climates. I believe, but am not certain, that it only affects the newer models. Original 60s and 85s are not affected.

 

[tyson]

@apacheguy - I almost certainly do... still trying to figure out a good way to break it just enough to have it replaced with a newer rev while still under power-train warranty lol

 

[ecarfan]

I just completed a 1,000 + mile trip in California, charging at Gilroy, Harris Ranch, Buttonwillow, and Inyokern (destination was Death Valley, where I charged at the Furnace Creek RV park). So normal charge rates at every location (after more than 3 years of ownership and 54,000 miles I believe I can recognize an abnormally slow charge rate).

Of course this time of year air temperatures are cool, even in the California desert I was driving through. And most of the time I was the only car charging at a Supercharger location, even at Harris Ranch.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Cold packs definitely reduce the rate. However, in my experience the pack can never get hot enough to limit the charge rate. Something would have to fail or it would have to be extremely warm, like over 50 C for this event to trigger.



Right range mode is definitely a bad idea. But its happened to many users and not all have occurred in cold climates. I believe, but am not certain, that it only affects the newer models. Original 60s and 85s are not affected.

IIRC, Folks making the run between Barstow and Vegas in the summer reported slower Spc speeds and it was either hot pack or chargers. Can't remember which

 

[ODE90D]

Forget about the cold, battery temperature, battery capacity, sharing chargers etc. Fact is that under the exact same conditions some owners experience that their max charge speed (kW) has dropped to well below 100 kW while other still have the same peak well above 110 kW.

Some Tesla employees have stated this is a sort of "punishment" for supercharging too often, but it doesn't make sense when owners with the same driving and supercharging pattern aren't consistently experiencing the "drop".

I think there are 2 possible answers:
1. Tesla has developed a semi-secret complex punishment algorithm that isn't working in a logic way
2. Some Teslas have a defect preventing them from superchaging at normal speed

Regardless of the answer I will insist on a fix from Tesla. They have made some pretty clear statements on Supercharging speeds and have to deliver accordingly.

 

[alapd]

 

[Cellsaver]

When I charge at my local SC in Cincinnati I never get over 200 miles/hr (and there's rarely anyone else there). When I'm on the road I get 300+. I'm thinking they are throttling local chargers, which I get.

 

[gabeincal]

I was trying to charge in the Fremont, CA factory supercharger and for the love of god couldn't get over 50-55kW. I moved 3 times between chargers (and verified I wasn't paired up with another car), temp in the 50s. I can second everyone here, charging rates have been lowering gradually (at least in CA)....

 

[TexasEV]

Forget about the cold, battery temperature, battery capacity, sharing chargers etc. Fact is that under the exact same conditions some owners experience that their max charge speed (kW) has dropped to well below 100 kW while other still have the same peak well above 110 kW.

Some Tesla employees have stated this is a sort of "punishment" for supercharging too often, but it doesn't make sense when owners with the same driving and supercharging pattern aren't consistently experiencing the "drop".

Nonsense. Can you name the employees, or their positions?
There is a thread somewhere on stupid things Tesla employees have said. This belongs there.

 

[Lloyd]

I was trying to charge in the Fremont, CA factory supercharger and for the love of god couldn't get over 50-55kW. I moved 3 times between chargers (and verified I wasn't paired up with another car), temp in the 50s. I can second everyone here, charging rates have been lowering gradually (at least in CA)....

I've seen this too! It would be nice to have an official explanation from Tesla.

 

[gabeincal]

I've seen this too! It would be nice to have an official explanation from Tesla.

Especially at the mothership. I mean if you get only 1 supercharger right, that should be at the factory....