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Suspension Problem on Model S

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gpcordaro - I know you are reading this thread, so I thought I'd explain something. People are a bit harsh with you, but that is because people feel you haven't been very forthcoming with information about the incident. People want to sympathize with you, but won't, as long as the situation is a "he said, she said" type of deal.

What people need is something firm and indisputable. Like a copy of the receipt showing the work you had done by the Tesla Ranger. If you can post this, and it shows that Tesla performed work on your Model S where it would be natural for them to detect the fault on your Model S, I will be the first to criticize Tesla for putting you and your wife in harms way. And I know from experience with these kinds of threads that the mood will quickly shift in your favour with most posters here. (There will always be some die hards.)

The fact is that there is nothing unusual about faulty parts on cars. Stuff breaks all the time. And your Tesla was out of warranty for a reason - 70k miles in 3 years is almost as many miles as my car has racked up in 6 years. What's unusual is that such major corrosion went undetected for months or possibly even years. In most cases, the driver will react to unusual sounds long before it becomes a real issue. Maybe you like listening to loud music or have poor hearing - I don't know (it doesn't really matter). But when the first line of defence against major breakdowns fails, it falls to the regular servicing to catch the issues. And if someone here screwed up, for instance Tesla, that would give the people here something to rally behind.
 
...The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape...

If you pay for a Tesla 12,500 Mile or Annual Inspection starting as early as 2012, Tesla would show you a check list of what they did with your money each year or 12,500 miles which ever first: Including V for Visual Inspection of your Suspension System, T for correct Torque of your Suspension Bolts.

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If you paid for 12,500 Mile or Annual Inspection as early as since 3/24/2015, you should have a receipt showing Tesla did a Service Bulletin on "Front Lower Control Arm Washer Installation."
 
The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident

One of the first things done when servicing a car is to inspect the breaks by measuring the pads and disks wear
and to look for any oil leak.
To do so it is necessary to remove each wheel.

I'm really surprised that the mechanics person did not noticed that the front wheel suspension was certainly a little bit loose?

Beside abnormal possible noise coming front the loose ball joint,
the front tire must has shown some abnormal wear thread.

How much miles was on the front wheel, or if new did you got recently an alignment done?

It would be valuable to show the report from the "Ross Park Mall sears service".

What kind of service they provided? Is there any diagnostic issues mentioned or recommendation in the report?

As I said earlier, certainly liability issues, one of the first thing done when servicing a car is to inspect the breaks.
Doing so, I suppose that, while the car was lift up, the mechanics should had noticed any issue with the front wheel suspension and gearing mechanism.

Note: I'm just an engineer, I don't want to defend or attack any body, I just want to understand the facts.
 
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WOW people are so naive, I live within 2 miles of my business, also on a paved road. My Model S has not been abused or driven regularly on any dirt road. The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape. I just count my lucky stars that I did go onto that back country road that Sunday and had the failure at a low speed otherwise my Wife and I could have been killed or worse yet killed someone else. Now that I know that The Tesla ball joints are prone to wear out ,in my case, at about 70,000 miles, I will check them about every 30,000 miles for safety sake. My only purpose in the first place when posting here was to warn other Tesla Model S owners about the safety risk so that they have their cars inspected for safety issues. If I convinced just one owner to do so and potentially saved an accident I accomplished my goal. There is now to much noise on this thread, so I will not reply again on this thread until I hear back from NHTSA about my case.

Interesting reading ... there are lots of inconsistencies between Cordaro's post and the Tesla Blog response.

A Grain of Salt
The Tesla Team June 9, 2016
A few things need to be cleared up about the supposed safety of Model S suspensions:

First, there is no safety defect with the suspensions in either the Model S or Model X. Since we own all of our service centers, we are aware of every incident that happens with our customer cars and we are aware of every part that gets replaced. Whenever there is even a potential issue with one of those parts, we investigate fully. This, combined with extensive durability testing, gives us high confidence in our suspensions. With respect to the car that is discussed in the blog post that led to yesterday’s news (more on the blog post below), the suspension ball joint experienced very abnormal rust. We haven’t seen this on any other car, suggesting a very unusual use case. The car had over 70,000 miles on it and its owner lives down such a long dirt road that it required two tow trucks to retrieve the car. (One to get the car to the highway and one to get it from the highway to the service center.) When we got the car, it was caked in dirt.

Second, NHTSA has not opened any investigation nor has it even started a “preliminary evaluation,” which is the lowest form of formal investigatory work that it does. On April 20th, as part of what it has told us it considers “routine screening,” NHTSA informally asked us to provide information about our suspensions. On April 30th, we provided all relevant information to NHTSA. NHTSA has since told us that we have cooperated fully and that no further information is needed. Neither before nor after this information was provided has NHTSA identified any safety issue with Tesla’s suspensions. This can be confirmed with NHTSA.

Third, Tesla has never and would never ask a customer to sign a document to prevent them from talking to NHTSA or any other government agency. That is preposterous. When our customers tell us something went wrong with their car, we often cover it even if we find that the problem was not caused by the car and that we therefore have no obligations under the warranty. In these situations, we discount or conduct the repair for free, because we believe in putting our customers’ happiness ahead of our own bottom line. When this happens, we sometimes ask our customers to sign a “Goodwill Agreement.” The basic point is to ensure that Tesla doesn’t do a good deed, only to have that used against us in court for further gain. These situations are very rare, but have sometimes occurred in the past. We will take a look at this situation and will work with NHTSA to see if we can handle it differently, but one thing is clear: this agreement never even comes close to mentioning NHTSA or the government and it has nothing to do with trying to stop someone from communicating with NHTSA or the government about our cars. We have absolutely no desire to do something like that. It is deeply ironic that the only customer who apparently believes that this document prevents him from talking to NHTSA is also the same one who talked to NHTSA. If our agreement was meant to prevent that, it obviously wasn’t very good.

Fourth, Tesla’s own actions demonstrate just how rigorous we are about bringing issues to NHTSA’s attention. Not only do we regularly meet with NHTSA, we have also shown that we won’t hesitate to conduct proactive and voluntary recalls even when there is only a slight risk of a safety issue. Most recently, Tesla recalled third row seats in the Model X even though not a single problem had been reported by any customer. Before that, Tesla recalled a front seat belt pretensioner, even though not a single injury had occurred. In both of these situations and others before them, Tesla took these actions before anyone reported a concern to NHTSA. We did them on our own, because it was the right thing to do.

There is no car company in the world that cares more about safety than Tesla and our track record reflects that. The Model S is 5-star safety rated in every category and sub-category and Model X is expected to receive the same rating as soon as the government finishes testing. Recently, a Model S was in a very high speed accident in Germany that caused it to fly 82 feet through the air, an event that would likely be fatal in vehicles not designed to the level of safety of a Tesla. All five occupants were able to exit the vehicle under their own power and had no life-threatening injuries.

Finally, it is worth noting that the blogger who fabricated this issue, which then caused negative and incorrect news to be written about Tesla by reputable institutions, is Edward Niedermeyer. This is the same gentle soul who previously wrote a blog titled “Tesla Death Watch,” which starting on May 19, 2008 was counting the days until Tesla’s death. It has now been 2,944 days. We just checked our pulse and, much to his chagrin, appear to be alive. It is probably wise to take Mr. Niedermeyer’s words with at least a small grain of salt.

We don’t know if Mr. Niedermeyer’s motivation is simply to set a world record for axe-grinding or whether he or his associates have something financial to gain by negatively affecting Tesla’s stock price, but it is important to highlight that there are several billion dollars in short sale bets against Tesla. This means that there is a strong financial incentive to greatly amplify minor issues and to create false issues from whole cloth. That said, sometimes Tesla does make genuine mistakes. We are not and have never claimed to be perfect. However, we strongly believe in trying to do the right thing and, when we fall short, taking immediate corrective action.
 
What's unusual is that such major corrosion went undetected for months or possibly even years. In most cases, the driver will react to unusual sounds long before it becomes a real issue.

Yggdrasill, I'd like your posting. I think that an other noticeable effect would have been when using the breaks, to have the car steering on one side instead of remaining straight.
 
If you paid for 12,500 Mile or Annual Inspection as early as since 3/24/2015, you should have a receipt showing Tesla did a Service Bulletin on "Front Lower Control Arm Washer Installation."

Tam, very good post. Tesla must have a copy of each inspection.

1) If Tesla mechanics never noticed that the ball joint was loose, I would be a little worry about how rigorously the service was done.

2) If the ball joint been loose has been noticed during inspection, and the issue was not fixed, I would be very concerned about the reliability of the service done. May be was detected while still under guaranty but was not replaced to save some bucks?

At this point it would be valuable to see the all service reports to be able to see which of (1) or (2) apply.
 
gp... thank you for having the courage to step up and report this problem even though it has caused much abuse and bias to you as to your reasons and purposes.. I want to write as a Tesla MS 90D lessee.. these situations are EXACTLY the reason why I leased instead of purchased my MS 90D... Say all you will .. feel all you will... but the bottom line is Tesla is a UNPROVEN brand.... and as such... Tesla will continue to have all types of troubles until they get their proverbial cr*p together..... thanks for sharing this... the neo zealots are having a field day without acquiring the facts...

this is a very long thread... I have not had time to read all 50+ pages... so bear with me...

Please clarify 2 things...

#1) state the time line of the facts.. including your last annual Tesla inspection , which shop and the info provided by them at that time..

#2) state the date of the actual failure

#3) clarify the date of service after the failure.... and did/have you post(ed) the receipts of service??

My Tesla WILL be inspected by Tesla.. and ANY issues I expect to be informed of.. and repaired as necessary to protect myself and my passengers.. and everyone else on the road as well.... thanks again.. joe
 
gp... thank you for having the courage to step up and report this problem even though it has caused much abuse and bias to you as to your reasons and purposes.. I want to write as a Tesla MS 90D lessee.. these situations are EXACTLY the reason why I leased instead of purchased my MS 90D... Say all you will .. feel all you will... but the bottom line is Tesla is a UNPROVEN brand.... and as such... Tesla will continue to have all types of troubles until they get their proverbial cr*p together..... thanks for sharing this... the neo zealots are having a field day without acquiring the facts...

this is a very long thread... I have not had time to read all 50+ pages... so bear with me...

Please clarify 2 things...

#1) state the time line of the facts.. including your last annual Tesla inspection , which shop and the info provided by them at that time..

#2) state the date of the actual failure

#3) clarify the date of service after the failure.... and did/have you post(ed) the receipts of service??

My Tesla WILL be inspected by Tesla.. and ANY issues I expect to be informed of.. and repaired as necessary to protect myself and my passengers.. and everyone else on the road as well.... thanks again.. joe
Unfortunately, the original draft "Goodwill Agreement" the OP posted stated "You agree to keep confidential our provision of the Goodwill, the terms of this agreement and the incidents or claims leading or related to our provision of the Goodwill." Assuming he eventually ended up signing such a Goodwill Agreement, he is not allowed to clarify anything for the Tesla Owners community. If you're not ok with that, you should probably ask Tesla to publicly rescind all language in existing Goodwill Agreements that limits sharing of information related to experiences with our vehicles.
 
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It makes me sad to think of the billions of dollars of shareholder value and potentially thousands of people scared away from the brand all for a single person's desire to avoid a $3000 out-of-warranty service claim.

That's all there is to it in the end. NHTSA has done their investigation and found no recurring issue. This was a one-off. We're done here.
 
Yeah, this a perfectly acceptable agreement. Almost exactly what I would put together if I was Teslas lawyer. The key is the line stating that "to the fullest extent consistent with law" confidentiality must be maintained. Suppressing disclosure to federal authorities is not permissible by law, therefore the agreement does not discourage disclosure (even implicitly) as many feared. The only change I would have made (which Tesla is now doing) is I would have added language explicitly stating that the agreement in no way affects the participants right to report issues to federal authorities.

The agreement is just that - an exchange of consideration. They are willing to fix something they do not have to in exchange for you keeping quiet about it so it doesn't create a precedent or cause other legal issues. It's the same reason you accept severance in exchange for a release of claims when you are fired from your job. Sometimes people decline the severance because they think the lawsuit will be more lucrative. Fair enough.

You are making the same decision. Apparently the ability to tell your friends and the internet that tesla agreed to pay for something out of warranty in exchange for signing a boilerplate nda is worth more than the repairs. Again, fair enough. But don't pretend tesla is doing anything nefarious here.

The reason I posted the entire relevant part of the text is so that people could come to their own conclusions. The release seemed like severe overkill to me. I've seen posts that say that BMW replaced or fixed something out of warranty without requiring such an onerous agreement be signed.

My issue was not minor, not related to any abuse on my part, and not isolated to my vehicle. It affected many Model X's. In this era, it's important that customers be able to use forums like this to exchange enough information to discover such systemic problems. A forward-thinking company encourages the discovery of such systemic problems, so that they may be solved, just as Internet companies provide bounties to those who discover security flaws. Even notifying the NHTSA seems to violate the agreement, if such disclosure is not a legal obligation on my part. The strong language in the agreement could dissuade a customer from reporting, even if it is a legal obligation to report, because most people aren't lawyers, and the agreement says you'll be liable for "damages" if you disclose.

The counterproductive thing is that Tesla, by asking for such terms, caused me to put the language in the public domain before I have to sign anything. I have not posted the details of what they've agreed to do, because I think they've been very cooperative and service-oriented (other than the ridiculous contract). But suffice it to say that my car qualifies for my state's Lemon Law, so I can be compensated through legal means without signing any waiver. In effect, I get no consideration for signing the agreement, because Tesla is legally obligated to take the car back already. Tesla would have been much better off if they had not requested I sign this.
 
gp... thank you for having the courage to step up and report this problem even though it has caused much abuse and bias to you as to your reasons and purposes.. I want to write as a Tesla MS 90D lessee.. these situations are EXACTLY the reason why I leased instead of purchased my MS 90D... Say all you will .. feel all you will... but the bottom line is Tesla is a UNPROVEN brand.... and as such... Tesla will continue to have all types of troubles until they get their proverbial cr*p together..... thanks for sharing this... the neo zealots are having a field day without acquiring the facts...

this is a very long thread... I have not had time to read all 50+ pages... so bear with me...

Please clarify 2 things...

#1) state the time line of the facts.. including your last annual Tesla inspection , which shop and the info provided by them at that time..

#2) state the date of the actual failure

#3) clarify the date of service after the failure.... and did/have you post(ed) the receipts of service??

My Tesla WILL be inspected by Tesla.. and ANY issues I expect to be informed of.. and repaired as necessary to protect myself and my passengers.. and everyone else on the road as well.... thanks again.. joe
Then why are you here? X is only for those who might consider the possibility that Musk may not be a scammer running a ponzi scheme.

moderators letting trolls rum amok here?

Joe,

This what you are up against. If there were 50,000 suspension problems out there, you would hear: "the majority of the cars are fine"


You've got your climate deniers and your Tesla problem deniers, you just aren't going to change some folks minds.

Good for you: for "My Tesla WILL be inspected by Tesla.. and ANY issues I expect to be informed of.. and repaired as necessary to protect myself and my passengers.. and everyone else on the road as well....

Tesla will continue to have all types of troubles until they get their proverbial cr*p together..... thanks for sharing this... the neo zealots are having a field day without acquiring the facts...
 
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This what you are up against. If there were 50,000 suspension problems out there, you would hear: "the majority of the cars are fine"

No, this is pure garbage speculation and straw man fallacy. If there were a systematic pattern of suspension failures, this forum would be freaking the f*** out, and deservedly so. Instead, we have this one thread, and a couple of rabble rousers who are staying at the party long after the beer has run out. There *have* been legitimate freakouts on this forum for many issues and missteps by Tesla. This isn't one of them.

But by all means, continue to paint everyone here as mindless brain washed Tesla drones if it makes you feel superior. The mods don't seem to mind.
 
If there were 50,000 suspension problems out there, you would hear: "the majority of the cars are fine"

No you wouldn't. Of course the fact that there was ONE bad ball joint, out of warranty, is a far cry from 50K, and why many of us are disgusted at the attempts to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Most of us here are fairly rational people and we can see this is not the issue that a few individuals are trying to claim.
 
...Tesla must have a copy of each inspection...

The word "serviced" was mentioned but what kind of service did the owner's receipt detail?

If owners don't pay for a 12,500 Mile/Annual Inspection then owners don't get a detailed front to back inspection including the suspension system.

It's possible that if owners only want to pay a lower price for 2 front tire replacement instead of higher price for a 12,500 Mile/Annual Inspection then the receipts would detail your two tires but not suspension.
 
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I noticed this video showing the problem:


I"m still puzzle how this worn out part has not been detected:
- while driving (noise, stability effect when steering or when using the brakes) and also
- during any services revision (Is there any mechanics report available?).
 
It is, and it would be prosecutable if the individual lived in the US. Alas, the person submitting all of the fraudulent claims lives in Australia.

There are cases where a non-US citizen, who has been deemed to hurt US interests while not being within a US-jurisdiction, has been sought extradited from where they were to the US.

Kim Dotcom (that's the name of a person, with a Finnish passport) was for example arrested (in a spectacular fashion) by police in New Zealand and is trying to prevent his extradition to the USA, basically for allowing other people to infringe on US copyright. I do not wish to condone (nor criticize) the acts of Kim Dotcom here, I am just pointing out that the long arm of the law is actually very long in the case of the USA.
 
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...Is there any mechanics report available?).

This was covered before.

Owner's manual demands 12,500-Mile or Annual Preventive Maintenance as long as you still operate your car.

Why should they pay for those preventive maintenance when their cars still running fine?

Thus, a numbers of owners do not want to pay for those.

They only prefer to pay when something is broken down while driving such as severely rusted and worn parts.

Some owners advocate for skipping Preventive Maintenance because it makes perfect economic sense for them.

For example, if you skip 5 Preventive Maintenance for the past 73,000 miles, you would save lots of money.

And when a repair is needed for severely rusted and worn parts even when it's out of warranty, why not sign a "Goodwill Agreement" in exchange for either a discount or free repair.

Why waste your money with preventive maintenance and extended warranty when others will bail you out when your car is broken down? It just does not make any sense to lose your own money at all!

On the other hand, if they don't skip Preventive Maintenance, they would get a detailed receipt of what their money paid for including Suspension System Inspection and setting all those Suspension Bolts with proper torque.

If they don't skip Preventive Maintenance, worn, rusted parts are discovered well in advance and you wouldn't risk a break down on the road.

Both Preventive Maintenance and Extended Warranty cost money initially, but what you gain is Tesla proactive service to make sure you your chance of being stranded on the road is much reduced.

So take your pick: pay up or don't pay in advance for Preventive Maintenance and Extended Warranty.

It's a personal choice that you have learned very well from this thread.
 
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Both Preventive Maintenance and Extended Warranty cost money initially, but what you gain is Tesla proactive service to make sure you your chance of being stranded on the road is much reduced.

So take your pick: pay up or don't pay in advance for Preventive Maintenance and Extended Warranty.

Since the money Tesla spends on Goodwill repairs eventually will be coming out of the pockets of all Tesla buyers, I think there is also an important lesson for Tesla here:

If a Tesla owner chooses not to pay for the recommended preventive maintenance, then they should be much less likely to qualify for goodwill repairs.
 
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