Suspension Problem on Model S

[HyperMiler]

Quick question: is the ball joint in question a standard part used by other manufacturers? Who makes the Tesla ones?

The ridiculousness of this discussion for me is that this or a similar item is entirely a not EV specific item in use on pretty much every car out there.

And oh the naivety from a fleet co-owner vis a vis this issue... .

Gimmee a brake

 

[AWDtsla]

Quick question: is the ball joint in question a standard part used by other manufacturers? Who makes the Tesla ones?

The ridiculousness of this discussion for me is that this or a similar item is entirely a not EV specific item in use on pretty much every car out there.

And oh the naivety from a fleet co-owner vis a vis this issue... .

Gimmee a brake

Yes this would be good information to know. I just got stopped in the hall by someone asking me if I'm worried my suspension is going to break. The article worked. I wonder how much financial damage it's doing.

 

[Electroman]

NY times wrote an article referring to the 37 NHTSA complaints and never mentioned a single word that all of them are fake

 

[Stoneymonster]

Yup, first thing my Dad asked me when I talked to him on the phone this weekend was, "what's going on with your suspension". But hey, fear gets clicks.

 

[RiverBrick]

I just got stopped in the hall by someone asking me if I'm worried my suspension is going to break. The article worked...

Don't worry, I still get questioned by people who think my car is going to spontaneously burst into flames.

 

[chipmunk]

So here's the thing. I think that basically all of us Tesla owners know that we have amazing cars and Tesla has a brilliant product with a brilliant strategy and we genuinely want Tesla to succeed. When an owner has a frustrating issue (which I think the OP certainly did) how do we learn to have a healthy discussion about the problem without allowing a dishonorable journalist to take advantage of the healthy discussion, and without attacking fellow Tesla owners who need support from the community? This thread and ensuing publicity (both from the journalist and in my opinion from Tesla) has been a very unhealthy discussion.

I wish I knew the answer.

 

[traxila]

NY times wrote an article referring to the 37 NHTSA complaints and never mentioned a single word that all of them are fake

Yeah, and no mention by that rag that the vehicle was out of warranty.

Oh, how I long for the days of yellow journalism,,,lol

 

[PeterK]

And to Keef Wivanef's credit, he busted a solar scam in Australia once. There is an Youtube video of him appearing on Australian TV on that issue. When the lamestream media just regurgitates what the powerful say, there got to be a few who stand up and do the real research.

It seems Keef was successful in busting what from that video appears to my eye to have been a readily apparent solar scam in Australia. This success combined with some kind of animus towards Elon Musk somehow has led him to a campaign alleging that many Tesla crashes are due to suspension failures, SpaceX landings are faked, etc. And then to commit what appear to be fraudulent acts of filing NHTSA claims for other people's cars and accidents for which he makes up facts.

Unfortunately in this case the media just regurgitated what Ed Neidermeyer wrote, including citing the number of claims without noting 90% were fraudulent. A perfect storm of a difficult customer who didn't get everything he wanted despite what appears to be a lack of preventive maintenance or inspection on an out-of-warranty car, a blogger with a long-term anti-Tesla bias (show me one positive article on Tesla that he or his partner have published) who may not short the stock but receives consulting revenue from Tesla competitors, an Australian nut job, lots of shorts and click-seeking media. The only positive result of this is that the Goodwill Agreement NDA language will be clarified, though as others have pointed out by far the bulk of repairs are conducted under warranty without this agreement. And the stock will recover soon enough as this blows over.

As the blog says, take a mouthful of salt before believing anything Mr. Musk says. He has been proven wrong many times. Two weeks ago, he said, Roadster safety was terrible. Now, he claims Tesla cars have always been the safest. A mouthful of salt always helps when interpreting Musk comments.

What Musk said is that the very first Roadster was a mess, which they then a) fixed for customers by changing all transmissions, etc. and b) addressed with versions 1.5, 2.0 etc.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I would also be curious to know what Tesla did at this Sears facility.

Regardless, I believe whoever filed NHTSA complaints using someone else's VIN should be prosecuted for filing false reports and for fraud. Nobody has my permission to file a complaint with NHTSA about my vehicle other than myself, and if someone were to do just that I would consider it to be a fraudulent use of my VIN number without my permission.

I don't know that what Keef Leech, aka Keef Wivaneff, did constitutes fraud, but it is most certainly a federal crime: 18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally

Knowingly making false statements to federal officials on any matter within the jurisdiction of the United States Government carries the punishment of fines and up to 5 years imprisonment, or 8 years if the false statement was related to terrorism.

If the allegations published in The story behind the ‘false’ Tesla suspension complaints to NHTSA are true, Mr. Leech should certainly be imprisoned for these crimes.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

I don't know that what Keef Leech, aka Keef Wivaneff, did constitutes fraud

Add this count of copyright infringement: Leech owes Paul Henning some royalties for using the melody of "The Ballad Of Jed Clampett" which (I checked) is not yet in the public domain.
And it should be a crime to rhyme "Greg" with "fed." Though he was on the right track rhyming "roof" with TROOOF.

 

[CButterK]

I don't know that what Keef Leech, aka Keef Wivaneff, did constitutes fraud, but it is most certainly a federal crime: 18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally

Knowingly making false statements to federal officials on any matter within the jurisdiction of the United States Government carries the punishment of fines and up to 5 years imprisonment, or 8 years if the false statement was related to terrorism.

If the allegations published in The story behind the ‘false’ Tesla suspension complaints to NHTSA are true, Mr. Leech should certainly be imprisoned for these crimes.

So, how do we get him to come into the USA, or would he be considered a fugitive as long as he stays in OZ?

 

[msnow]

This is getting crazy again.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

When an owner has a frustrating issue (which I think the OP certainly did) how do we learn to have a healthy discussion about the problem without allowing a dishonorable journalist to take advantage of the healthy discussion, and without attacking fellow Tesla owners who need support from the community? This thread and ensuing publicity (both from the journalist and in my opinion from Tesla) has been a very unhealthy discussion.

I wish I knew the answer.

Transparency.

 

[Electroman]

Transparency and honesty.

OP did not disclose that he filed complaint with NHTSA until he found out that Tesla is paying for only half the out of warranty costs. It is not about saving babies from Tesla's death machine. It is about getting paid less than what OP expected, for poor maintenance of his car. Dishonest in aligning with frauds. Dishonest in being instrumental in spreading rumors that Tesla was trying to gag him from reporting through the NDA. Not transparent in stating exactly what service was done throughout the lifetime of the car, nor disclosing his Tesla was wallowing in mud until Tesla came out with that information. Dishonest in saying that he never noticed any problem or heard any sounds until the suspension broke.

There you go.. This discussion could have been healthy but for the lack of transparency and honesty, and fueled by a bunch of instigators who were here to have some fun.

But for that, this thread would have had a very healthy discussion. Look at the number of threads owners have posted on X door problems. ModelXBoy's saga. Those threads did not get derailed and almost all TMC members rallied behind those initial X owners who were going through lot more frustrations.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

So, how do we get him to come into the USA, or would he be considered a fugitive as long as he stays in OZ?

I don't claim to have any expertise on how this works, but from what I remember of the Kim DotCom case, the U.S. Justice Dept. would have to indict Mr. Leech on charges of making false statements to the U.S. Government, and then request that the State Dept. ask the Australian government to extradite Mr. Leech to face trial in the U.S..

The question is whether the feds are annoyed enough and have the resources to do this. If the U.S. Attorney is too busy going after drug lords and terrorists, they may simply not find this important enough to attend to. In the case of Kim DotCom, the feds felt he was a big enough fish to go after. Megaupload or whatever business Kim Dotcom ran was said to be enabling an unprecedented amount of intellectual property violations. Leech may be too insignificant to prosecute. The only way I see this getting attention quickly is if there is some involvement in massive securities fraud, of which I haven't seen any proof.

 

[ohmman]

But for that, this thread would have had a very healthy discussion. Look at the number of threads owners have posted on X door problems. ModelXBoy's saga. Those threads did not get derailed and almost all TMC members rallied behind those initial X owners who were going through lot more frustrations.

I had composed a pretty healthy response taking the opposing position - that our group can scare away honest owners with honest problems because of some of these reactions. But you've made me reconsider, and I appreciate that. The only rebuttal I'll give is that the Model X forum is full of a lot of Model X people, and we're all either going through similar issues or expecting early cars with those issues. That section has a strong contingent of early adopters. Also, @ModelXBoy professed his Tesla love in just about every post, which is one antidote to the issue at hand.

I agree, though - you've shown me the "glass half full" here. I suppose there is a reason I hang around. Hopefully we can keep that kind of arms-open attitude as we move forward.

 

[lklundin]

I don't claim to have any expertise on how this works, but from what I remember of the Kim DotCom case, the U.S. Justice Dept. would have to indict Mr. Leech on charges of making false statements to the U.S. Government, and then request that the State Dept. ask the Australian government to extradite Mr. Leech to face trial in the U.S.

Yes. I also referred to the example of Kim Dotcom earlier in this thread.

It should be pointed out that the above procedure is not without problems:

Imagine you are on a vacation, you meet and get to know someone, an adult like yourself. And you have consensual sex. Well, because that someone is of the same gender as you and from one of a long list of countries (e.g. Egypt), you have now committed a serious crime and enabled a citizen of that country to commit a serious crime.

While it is one thing to be a law-abiding citizen in your own country and in any country you decide to visit, it would be a real problem if you would have to respect the laws of all countries in the world, also those that you have never been to, or else face the risk of being extradited to there to be put on trial for a serious crime.

But maybe it is also a crime in Australia to submit fraudulent claims to an authority of a different country.

 

[Jeff N]

Transparency and honesty.

OP did not disclose that he filed complaint with NHTSA until he found out that Tesla is paying for only half the out of warranty costs. It is not about saving babies from Tesla's death machine. It is about getting paid less than what OP expected...

Huhwut? Because the OP did not immediately disclose to the TMC thread that he had filed a NHTSA complaint on April 28 just four days after the incident this means he didn't care about other people's babies?

Isn't quickly filing a NHTSA complaint exactly what he should have done? Can't responsible people have an incident, file a NHTSA report, and not even be aware that there is a TMC site to post a discussion thread at? Meanwhile, we have some other folks here at TMC who argue that NHTSA complaints shouldn't be filed right away....

nor disclosing his Tesla was wallowing in mud until Tesla came out with that information.

Tesla said his Model S was "caked in dirt". They did not say it was mud. There is a difference. Mane it was just a heavy film of dust? How thick is "caked"? It's hard so say how dirty the car really was without a more precise description or a photograph.

Dishonest in saying that he never noticed any problem or heard any sounds until the suspension broke.

It's your supposition that he should have been able to notice or hear a problem. You don't actually know that he did and then deliberately failed to disclose it. If it was so obvious, then why didn't the Tesla service center notice it when he brought the car in for service just days before the suspension failure?

You yourself seem to be throwing around a lot of loose accusations.

You might want to be more careful. Mr. Cordaro has easy access to legal advice -- Mrs. Cordaro is a former assistant county prosecutor and is now a county judge.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Huhwut? Because the OP did not immediately disclose to the TMC thread that he had filed a NHTSA complaint on April 28 just four days after the incident this means he didn't care about other people's babies.

Isn't quickly filing a NHTSA complaint exactly what he should have done? Meanwhile, we have some other folks here at TMC who argue that NHTSA complaints shouldn't be filed right away....

The filing of the NHTSA is just a side point. I think his point was that if the OP was primarily concerned about safety, the OP would logically mention the NHTSA filing earlier (not necessarily immediately, but sooner than the 2 weeks since the start of the thread) and the OP's post would mostly be about warning people to check their own suspensions (and perhaps file NHTSA reports of their own).

However, from the start of the thread and its development, his posts clearly were mainly about the fact Tesla is not paying to fix it and his displeasure about that. Later on, after this exploded in the media and he got flack for it, he circles back and claims it was mainly about safety, but anyone can go back to the start of the thread and see for themselves.

Now I wouldn't necessarily blame the OP for wanting Tesla to pay for the fix, but I don't think a lot of people will buy the argument that he was primarily concerned about safety.

Now that you mention the background of his wife, I should put out a thought I had. The OP probably was well aware that the issue would not be covered under warranty (given his warranty had expired a while back). However, if a recall can be triggered on the component, then Tesla would have to fix his ball joint regardless of the warranty. Now, for a regular person, they may not be aware of this, however, someone with some legal background (or someone married to one) might be completely aware of this.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

If it was so obvious, then why didn't the Tesla service center notice it when he brought the car in for service just days before the suspension failure?

You yourself seem to be throwing around a lot of loose accusations.

You might want to be more careful. Mr. Cordaro has easy access to legal advice -- Mrs. Cordaro is a former assistant county prosecutor and is now a county judge.

Yeah, he didn't take it to the SC...

His wife probably should have advised him not to release confidential information...don't you think?