James Anders
Member
The ball joint is sealed and does not have grease fittings.
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The ball joint is sealed and does not have grease fittings.
Is this the same Keef that claimed Space X rocket landing was a hoax, along with all his other "facts" he knows about Tesla and Solar city? I wonder how his credibility was effected by subsequent successful landings. I don't see him commenting on them anymore...
Keef Wivaneff's public profile | Identity | The Guardian
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Well, he was warned that he was being taken...not sure I have as much sympathy for him as you. I would say Tesla is justified in this instance...but maybe I'm just a fanboy.
Now, why don't you continue your crusade against other auto manufacturers who get their customers sign similar NDA if there were any goodwill repair? You won't, would you?
"Dragged along" ? How about he take some personal responsibility and look into some of the stuff he is joining in on.
And Maybe Tesla doesn't like being attacked by someone with whom they agreed to split the out-of-warranty repair bill.
Thanks very much for sharing pictures. I'm making a note to check mine when it gets more miles and will compare with yours.
I generally approach my dealings with companies (or people) in a cooperative fashion. That is, my expectation is that we're on the same team - we both want a happy resolution. In most cases, this has been a successful approach for me. It has nearly eliminated the stress associated with issues because it disposes of the notion that both parties are in contention. The time that this strategy breaks down is when it becomes clear we're not on the same team. In my experience, that's almost always a communication issue. One of the parties hasn't been clear about expectations, and therefore being on the same team becomes difficult.
I've always taken this approach with Tesla, and they've given me no reason to think that we'd ever 'cross' each other.
Tam
Well-Known Member
This thread has 2 claims:
1) Tesla suspension system fails prematurely long after the warranty ran out which should be subjected to a safety recall.
2) Tesla practice bribery which is called “Goodwill Agreement” to suppress the above information not just internally but externally as well by blinding owners with a discount or free repair which is worth as much as $3,100 in this case.
NHTSA asked Tesla to submit information related to the 2 claims above. This is called "“routine screening" and it is satisfied with that low level for information gathering and decided not to escalate to even a “preliminary evaluation.”
NHTSA is not going to escalate toward an investigation unless there are better proofs for those above claims.
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3Victoria
Active Member
After reading Tesla's reply, I think I've been snookered. It appears gpcordaro's motivations may not be not pure. Regardless, learning how his ball joints came to be in such bad shape would be very interesting.
James Anders
Member
Came across this and I thought it relevant. Apparently modern sealed-for-life ball joints do have design compromises that can lead to premature failure.
Moog gusher bearing technology: A deeper look - AftermarketSuspensionParts.com
Moog gusher bearing technology: A deeper look - AftermarketSuspensionParts.com
JoRey
Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
Kay, im all caught up and yes i see that i was a bit rash. But, to my defense it was a very well elaborated scenario. Regardless, NDA'S were the main source of the problem and the only reason that this got any reaction from the gov. At least Tesla owners now know to check their control arms. And of course I owe an apology to anyone i ofended .
Interesting read. I do miss using my grease gun.
Makes me think of the "lifetime" no adding water batteries. Just designed to have enough water to last "long enough".
You are making a lot of accusations and assumptions about people you don't know. Yes that is very disrespectful. No one here has tried to cover up a safety issue. Ball joints go bad on other cars too. One this bad would give a lot of warning. What people are upset about here are people trashing the company for financial gain or because they have a hatred for Tesla. Look at the join dates of the people involved. They came into the forum just to bash Tesla. No matter what data is presented it makes no difference. One was just disrespectful to Bonnie. The fact is that the NDA did not limit reporting to the NHTSA and the issue was reported. The fact is that most of the suspension issue reports are fraudulent. The fact is that NHTSA hasn't found an issue with the suspension. Most of the people supporting Tesla own the car. If there is an issue, they are the ones at risk.myou aren't.
If you had been a long term member you would see a lot of open discussion about issues. However, because of the cult nature of the stock there are a lot of shorts. The result has been the use of the Internet to try to drive the stock down for financial gain. The sad thing is that it is decreasing the value of the forum since it is making it difficult to have open technical discussions of issues without the trolls showing up.
New member, first post: I know this post will fall on deaf ears to all but a few dozen, but here's my two cents anyways...
Goodwill or Good Faith Documents
I have been asked to sign numerous "Goodwill" statements over my lifetime for numerous conditions. Some I signed and took the money and ran. Some I bulked at and wanted to go public (this was pre-Internet days); but, in those situations I ending up short-changed and with an inoperable product that I owned.
Some of these requests are legit,. For example, when a manufacturer isn't really at fault because of my blatant neglect (it was my fault). They were quite accommodating anyways and offered to replace/repair the product for free or at a substantial discount on "good faith." They required a "Goodwill" or "Good Faith" waiver signed so I don't share the special deal with others, which I can understand: you don't want others abusing your product and getting free exchanges.
You almost feel privileged getting a special deal from those manufacturers, even though it was your fault or lack of oversight. I continue to be a repeat customer of those manufacturers.
On the other hand, others are extremely shady: trying to protect their faulty product by trying to put a muzzle on you. They offer a discount or to comp the product in exchange for your silence. This has been hard as some products were marketed as the Golden Ticket - only to receive a lemon and I realize how much of a POS it really was. But how many lemons/exchanges can you receive before finally giving up?
Trying to stick to just facts here with little opinion...
Just look at the sheer number of products Tesla sold to gauge the quality... In Q1 2016 alone, Tesla delivered 14,820 vehicles. The NHTSA is investing a total of 33 reports so far. That's less than 0.03% in the grand scheme of things. And remember, each filing needs a context associated with it.
Signing two Goodwill/Good Faith documents
I'd like to share one of those experiences below...
I visited a local tire outlet store and ordered 5 special order ties for my vehicle. Noticing the outside edges were abnormally wore out on the stock tires, I told the salesman that during the alignment to subtract -1 degree of camber to offset the wear for the next set of tires (I suspected the abnormal wear is due to heavy tongue of the trailers I towed).
After a few hours delay, I receive my vehicle with new ties and an alignment printout of my "slightly out of spec -1 degree negative camber." No problem, that's what I asked for. I drove off.
The next morning, as I was driving to work with slightly ice roads, a deer jumped out in nearly in front of me. Not a Panic stop; but, firm braking I applied. This is when the left front wheel nearly collapsed under the vehicle. I had it towed to the Toyota dealership and they called me in to look at the damage. Apparently what the Tire center did in order to get it to -1 degree camber is to completely cut off 1/4" steel plates off of the frame rail that served as alignment stops. Tighten it down and hope for the best. Toyota refused to touch (repair) the vehicle due to the frame was actually cut - they could not guarantee any repair. The only thing they were willing to do was to replace the entire frame - on a 2 year old vehicle.
The potential lawsuit of a $35,000 vehicle now totalled, I got escalated way up the chain of command of the tire center franchise quickly.
Being an ex-Technician myself, I knew how to fix it with a welder. I found a local autobody shop that allowed me the use of their welder for a small fee and Waiver of Liability - which included a Goodwill clause - I suspect out of liability. That was the first one I signed.
Finally, when talking with management of the tire company, I told them I could repair it myself. They offered to pay for everything: rental truck ($750), tow trucks ($250 for several back and forth) and now they asked for a Goodwill/Good Faith waiver to be signed.
I told them it wasn't good enough. I now have a vehicle that could be considered totalled, and Toyota has branded it as unrepairable with a carfax report. I told them I am now stuck with a vehicle that I may not be able to sale. I needed compensation.
In short, I got a huge settlement agreed to right on the phone, and the Good Faith waiver had to be signed first before the check was cut. Signed, fax, and check received.
All, when it wasn't really their fault - it was a new part time kid in his 20s that was being pressured by an angry boss to "do exactly what I tell you" in terms of -1 degree camber. But that's what happens when you allow a francias to use your name - liability.
In Summary
The internet caught on fire when Tesla asked this guy to pay half, and not to say anything about the deal. There is context we will always be missing here, and from both sides.
Goodwill/Good Faith documents do have their places and is standard practice in a lot of industries especially when doing something against their established standard procedures and/or policies.
Goodwill or Good Faith Documents
I have been asked to sign numerous "Goodwill" statements over my lifetime for numerous conditions. Some I signed and took the money and ran. Some I bulked at and wanted to go public (this was pre-Internet days); but, in those situations I ending up short-changed and with an inoperable product that I owned.
Some of these requests are legit,. For example, when a manufacturer isn't really at fault because of my blatant neglect (it was my fault). They were quite accommodating anyways and offered to replace/repair the product for free or at a substantial discount on "good faith." They required a "Goodwill" or "Good Faith" waiver signed so I don't share the special deal with others, which I can understand: you don't want others abusing your product and getting free exchanges.
You almost feel privileged getting a special deal from those manufacturers, even though it was your fault or lack of oversight. I continue to be a repeat customer of those manufacturers.
On the other hand, others are extremely shady: trying to protect their faulty product by trying to put a muzzle on you. They offer a discount or to comp the product in exchange for your silence. This has been hard as some products were marketed as the Golden Ticket - only to receive a lemon and I realize how much of a POS it really was. But how many lemons/exchanges can you receive before finally giving up?
Trying to stick to just facts here with little opinion...
Just look at the sheer number of products Tesla sold to gauge the quality... In Q1 2016 alone, Tesla delivered 14,820 vehicles. The NHTSA is investing a total of 33 reports so far. That's less than 0.03% in the grand scheme of things. And remember, each filing needs a context associated with it.
Signing two Goodwill/Good Faith documents
I'd like to share one of those experiences below...
I visited a local tire outlet store and ordered 5 special order ties for my vehicle. Noticing the outside edges were abnormally wore out on the stock tires, I told the salesman that during the alignment to subtract -1 degree of camber to offset the wear for the next set of tires (I suspected the abnormal wear is due to heavy tongue of the trailers I towed).
After a few hours delay, I receive my vehicle with new ties and an alignment printout of my "slightly out of spec -1 degree negative camber." No problem, that's what I asked for. I drove off.
The next morning, as I was driving to work with slightly ice roads, a deer jumped out in nearly in front of me. Not a Panic stop; but, firm braking I applied. This is when the left front wheel nearly collapsed under the vehicle. I had it towed to the Toyota dealership and they called me in to look at the damage. Apparently what the Tire center did in order to get it to -1 degree camber is to completely cut off 1/4" steel plates off of the frame rail that served as alignment stops. Tighten it down and hope for the best. Toyota refused to touch (repair) the vehicle due to the frame was actually cut - they could not guarantee any repair. The only thing they were willing to do was to replace the entire frame - on a 2 year old vehicle.
The potential lawsuit of a $35,000 vehicle now totalled, I got escalated way up the chain of command of the tire center franchise quickly.
Being an ex-Technician myself, I knew how to fix it with a welder. I found a local autobody shop that allowed me the use of their welder for a small fee and Waiver of Liability - which included a Goodwill clause - I suspect out of liability. That was the first one I signed.
Finally, when talking with management of the tire company, I told them I could repair it myself. They offered to pay for everything: rental truck ($750), tow trucks ($250 for several back and forth) and now they asked for a Goodwill/Good Faith waiver to be signed.
I told them it wasn't good enough. I now have a vehicle that could be considered totalled, and Toyota has branded it as unrepairable with a carfax report. I told them I am now stuck with a vehicle that I may not be able to sale. I needed compensation.
In short, I got a huge settlement agreed to right on the phone, and the Good Faith waiver had to be signed first before the check was cut. Signed, fax, and check received.
All, when it wasn't really their fault - it was a new part time kid in his 20s that was being pressured by an angry boss to "do exactly what I tell you" in terms of -1 degree camber. But that's what happens when you allow a francias to use your name - liability.
In Summary
The internet caught on fire when Tesla asked this guy to pay half, and not to say anything about the deal. There is context we will always be missing here, and from both sides.
Goodwill/Good Faith documents do have their places and is standard practice in a lot of industries especially when doing something against their established standard procedures and/or policies.
Look at the first comment in this link:
Quote: (December 2015)
The insane/ludicrous Tesla Model S with (beta) Otto Pilot is already loose on the highways.
Its occupants are protected by the steel girder at the front of the two and a half ton battering ram. To make things even more exciting it comes with "Snap-Off Axles" and self igniting battery.
Flickr Tesla Whompy Wheels
Flickr Tesla Sliced Wheels"
UnQuote.
See earlier posts by "Lucille, et al." Sounds familiar?
Singer (Keef). He has a book:
Amazon.com: The Great SunCube Swindle eBook: Keef Wivaneff: Kindle Store
James Anders
Member
It's not a foregone conclusion that a severely worn ball joint would exhibit obvious symptoms.
It all depends on the suspension geometry, vehicle loading, road conditions, etc. It's entirely possible that a heavy vehicle like the Model S might load the ball joints in such a way to mask any looseness or play.
It all depends on the suspension geometry, vehicle loading, road conditions, etc. It's entirely possible that a heavy vehicle like the Model S might load the ball joints in such a way to mask any looseness or play.
Perhaps, but based on the need for a TSB for play on the lower front ball joint, maybe not.
I find that difficult to believe considering the severity of the wear and the rust. Besides play I would expect steering feel to signal a problem, but tons of assist might cover that up. However I'll accept the possibility. It was certainly obvious on my old Mazda.
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