Taycan Takedown

[204EV]

400-428 Wh/m WLTP is the rated consumption (depending on model). That is downright TERRIBLE. I can't imagine what it gets at Autobahn speeds

model S(p) 300(320) EPA

 

[wenkan]

It is a Porsche and is NOT priced out of line. In fact it is priced BELOW the Panamera and the 911. It is targeted at Porsche buyers and NOT Leaf buyers.

Taycan Turbo: $150,900
Panamera Turbo: $153,000
911 Turbo: $161,800
Taycan Turbo S: $185,000
Panamera Turbo S: $187,700
911 Turbo S: $190,700

It’s funny to see how close model 3 performed to a car 3 times the price. I really wish Elon can make a model s refreshment that can use 100% of the power pack without overheating.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

400-428 Wh/m WLTP is the rated consumption (depending on model). That is downright TERRIBLE. I can't imagine what it gets at Autobahn speeds

model S(p) 300(320) EPA

Yeah I am just waiting on EPA numbers, as I am too lazy to figure out whether the correlation between WLTP and EPA is perfect (just a scaling to lower numbers for EPA). I would be surprised if it is a simple scaling. Still, just on paper with a rough scaling, it looks pretty poor.

Definitely looks lower than my ~230 mile expectation!

 

[Octo]

It is a Porsche and is NOT priced out of line. In fact it is priced BELOW the Panamera and the 911. It is targeted at Porsche buyers and NOT Leaf buyers. The question is not considering a Tesla BUT why would a Porsche enthusiast buy a Panamera when they could get a Taycan?

I predict it is a Panamera killer and that is really what we want and need.

It is a BARGEN of a Porsche performance machine. Love it.

Taycan Turbo: $150,900
Panamera Turbo: $153,000
911 Turbo: $161,800
Taycan Turbo S: $185,000
Panamera Turbo S: $187,700
911 Turbo S: $190,700

The Panamera starts at $87k, the Taycan at $151k.

It’s a totally different class.

The Taycan starts $60k higher than a 911.

I don’t think it’s “wrong” generally to price it that high but it tells you something about how serious they are with EVs. I do think that the range (miles) is not appropriate for the price.

I just think it’s priced as if they rather sell their turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder ICE vehicles. It’s a “WOW look at me in the showroom car” to help sell a Cayenne instead. You know, the product that keeps the factories churning and the company in business.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I bet a pair of Model 3 could beat that average speed record if you attached them end to end, and for less cost!

 

[JulienW]

It’s a totally different class.

The Taycan starts $60k higher than a 911.

I don’t think it’s “wrong” generally to price it that high but it tells you something about how serious they are with EVs. I do think that the range (miles) is not appropriate for the price.

I just think it’s priced as if they rather sell their turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder ICE vehicles. It’s a “WOW look at me in the showroom car” to help sell a Cayenne instead. You know, the product that keeps the factories churning and the company in business.

Sorry but you are incorrect. The (standard RWD) Taycan won't be released for a while and will start at a much lower cost. Porsche is starting with the Turbo and Turbo S and THAT is what you must compare with. Apples to Apples/Models to Models. I just threw in the 911 for fun so only compare the Panamera Turbo and Panamera Turbo S for a direct comparison. The Taycan is LESS money.

 

[Octo]

Sorry but you are incorrect. The (standard RWD) Taycan won't be released for a while and will start at a much lower cost. Porsche is starting with the Turbo and Turbo S and THAT is what you must compare with. Apples to Apples/Models to Models. I just threw in the 911 for fun so only compare the Panamera Turbo and Panamera Turbo S for a direct comparison. The Taycan is LESS money.

The one reason why I don’t agree with this is that in the ICE world, getting the performance of a $180k Taycan requires a lot of expensive improvements to the engine, especially if it must be reliable.

Therefore this comparison is purely based on marketing.

In the EV world, performance is comparatively trivial and that’s why you can get a P3 that can do 3.2s 0-60 for relatively cheap. Ever seen a Tesla motor? And then a Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid drivetrain?

So when Porsche calls the first available BEV “Turbo S” (eyeroll), it’s pure marketing designed to “have their cake and eat it too” by reaping the $$$ for extreme acceleration while doing this with a super simple (in comparison to a Turbo S Panamera) drivetrain.

And then the range is around 200 miles? The ONE truly difficult part of EV and they cannot excel with leading range?

 

[outie]

It’s funny to see how close model 3 performed to a car 3 times the price. I really wish Elon can make a model s refreshment that can use 100% of the power pack without overheating.

Yea it’s comical the new mid engine corvette will beat cars that cost 5x+. It will sell like hot cakes and demand will go through the roof. All the super and hypercars are doomed.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

400-428 Wh/m WLTP is the rated consumption (depending on model). That is downright TERRIBLE. I can't imagine what it gets at Autobahn speeds

Yeah I am just waiting on EPA numbers, as I am too lazy to figure out whether the correlation between WLTP and EPA is perfect (just a scaling to lower numbers for EPA). I would be surprised if it is a simple scaling. Still, just on paper with a rough scaling, it looks pretty poor.

Definitely looks lower than my ~230 mile expectation!

Here's How To Calculate Conflicting EV Range Test Cycles: EPA, WLTP, NEDC

I overcame my laziness. I guess I was thinking of NEDC which is way higher than EPA. Anyway, for WLTP, the EPA expectation would be around 250 miles (with around an 8% error)! That's pretty darn good!

I doubt that at Autobahn speeds it will be that bad. Likely it will compare favorably to Model 3 in those conditions where aero dominates. Not to say it will be good - of course it won't be.

 

[Scott7]

There is nothing magical about range - you just stuff more battery cells into the floor, and write a bigger check to Panasonic/LG/Samsung.

The downsides are not just extra cost, but extra weight.
A LOT of extra weight.

Weight kills performance.
Porsche knows this. Tesla, not so much.

So stats are out and the Taycan Turbo (S) comes in with (vs P100D):
higher cost
higher weight
25% (!) less range
slower acceleration

What is it that Porsche knows again?

I hope the Taycan sells well to those Porsche people, or anyone, that wouldn't consider a Tesla for whatever reason. I think we can all agree a P100D is not a "track car" by any means. But also...credit where credit's due! Telsa powertrain/battery tech still holding it's own, even at half the price.

 

[MP3Mike]

I thought they came with 270kW charging... But 150kW charging is optional... Oh, I get it, the 270kW charging is only at 800 volt locations. At 400 volt locations you only get 50kW unless you pay $460 more. (At least that is what it looks like.) They certainly don't make that clear...

They certainly nickel and dime you an options.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

25% (!) less range

Actually looks pretty comparable to the P3D+ - we'll see what the official EPA figures say but based on above it looks like around 250 miles (could be as low as 230)?

slower acceleration

Slower than what? Slower than a P100DL, it does appear. But not slower than much else that is electric.

Anyway, the cost puts it in a different class, in general, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[hydro 481]

Yeah I am just waiting on EPA numbers, as I am too lazy to figure out whether the correlation between WLTP and EPA is perfect (just a scaling to lower numbers for EPA). I would be surprised if it is a simple scaling. Still, just on paper with a rough scaling, it looks pretty poor.

Definitely looks lower than my ~230 mile expectation!

Here's How To Calculate Conflicting EV Range Test Cycles: EPA, WLTP, NEDC

I overcame my laziness. I guess I was thinking of NEDC. Anyway, for WLTP, the EPA expectation would be around 250 miles (with around an 8% error)! That's pretty darn good!

I doubt that at Autobahn speeds it will be that bad. Likely it will compare favorably to Model 3 in those conditions where aero dominates. Not to say it will be good - of course it won't be.

250 miles is for the bigger battery pack, which I believe is for the two highest models (Turbo and Turbo S). The base Taycan will have a smaller battery. I'm expecting range in the low 200s.

 

[Scott7]

I was looking forward to the Taycan configurator as Porsche options are well known to be off-the-charts crazypants, and I was not disappointed. You'll find this under the "Performance" category for the non-Turbo car:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

250 miles is for the bigger battery pack, which I believe is for the two highest models (Turbo and Turbo S). The base Taycan will have a smaller battery. I'm expecting range in the low 200s.

Yes. I'm only talking about the top-of-the-line model with available stats. See above. Wish I had looked up the correlation earlier TBH.

 

[follow.johnny]

Porsche Taycan looks promising. The price tag may not be for everyone but there will be a market for this car and I'm all for it.

At the end of the day competition breeds innovation. We need more EV competition and options since not everyone wants to buy a Tesla.

 

[Scott7]

Slower than what? Slower than a P100DL, it does appear. But not slower than much else that is electric.

Anyway, the cost puts it in a different class, in general, so it really doesn't matter.

Updated my post to make it clear I was comparing vs P100D. Yeah, totally different class for many reasons but price being a huge one.

 

[WilliamG]

It is a Porsche and is NOT priced out of line. In fact it is priced BELOW the Panamera and the 911. It is targeted at Porsche buyers and NOT Leaf buyers. The question is not considering a Tesla BUT why would a Porsche enthusiast buy a Panamera when they could get a Taycan?

I predict it is a Panamera killer and that is really what we want and need.

It is a BARGEN of a Porsche performance machine. Love it.

Taycan Turbo: $150,900
Panamera Turbo: $153,000
911 Turbo: $161,800
Taycan Turbo S: $185,000
Panamera Turbo S: $187,700
911 Turbo S: $190,700

A Porsche enthusiast is buying a Panamera because they can gas it up quickly and easily anywhere? If it’s just a weekend toy, then sure - Taycan all the way. But you forget that Porsche doesn’t have the charging network awesomeness of Tesla yet.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Slower than what? Slower than a P100DL, it does appear. But not slower than much else that is electric.

And only slower from 0-60 (maybe, since magazine times for Porsches seem to be 0.2s faster than Porsche's times it appears that they do not use a 1 foot rollout in their advertised times). The Turbo S will have significantly faster acceleration at speeds greater than 60mph.

 

[Eno Deb]

Slower than what? Slower than a P100DL, it does appear. But not slower than much else that is electric.

I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche's 2.6s matched Tesla's 2.4s. They are always conservative, and Tesla likes to play games (such as measuring without rollout on the performance versions and with rollout on the others).

Anyway, the cost puts it in a different class, in general, so it really doesn't matter.

Yep, you pay a hefty price for that Porsche emblem.