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Taycan Takedown
- Thread starter evalst2018
- Start date
MightyHawk
Member
People with money can be frugal in unexpected ways. The chairman of my company has bought a number of new Porsche 911s, but he used an iPhone 3s until a few years ago.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Because <random youtuber> says so.
This thread is too funny.Because <random youtuber> says so.
Random you tuber with tons of time slips vs.... a show that no one watches.
I am sure Porsche will engineer a great system, that's never really been in doubt. The time and system effects are the reason Porsche will become irrelevant. The fact is that Tesla can now compare themselves to Porsche..and Porsche compares themselves to Tesla. So do their fans/car enthusiasts. What Porsche does not have is a system to make the Porsche electric car endeavor useful at scale. That's it's glaring weakness. Not only is it a hugely expensive car, normal purchase prices is going to be nearly 50% more that of that new Tesla coming out in spring/summer but the new tesla is something that can drive from LA to NYC all it wants, in comfort. Track times are important to a niche niche group of people, most want to drive it. Which means the network that supports the car must work. Porsche is fighting a lonely fight there as there is a lack of national supportive network or chargers. They will be selling a few thousand of those in the US. They will break, Porsche's are not known for being shop proof vehicles, like a Toyota or Honda for instance.
So even if it is a great car it is not likely to have sales that rival an S/X Plaid because a consumer that is not an absolute track fiend or elitist will say..huh a Telsa (leading EV company) that goes faster, further, and cost much less or great sportscar that is at best a daily commuter car-basically fitting the same role as a luxury version of a Leaf. The average consumer, even well off consumers, don't want a Leaf or Prius. They want a EV they can drive to parents on Thanksgiving or to a client site 100 miles away. They simply want to replace ICE with EV. Tesla allows you to do that but Porsche really doesn't. Even though I consider them irrelevant they are clearly well engineered. Slow careful German engineering. When you are striving to compete in a fast new world...slow careful is not likely to remain relevant.
Mostly I want to see the end of ICE's. Clearly VW does not and they were very willing to destroy human health and break any number of laws to keep ICE relevant.
So even if it is a great car it is not likely to have sales that rival an S/X Plaid because a consumer that is not an absolute track fiend or elitist will say..huh a Telsa (leading EV company) that goes faster, further, and cost much less or great sportscar that is at best a daily commuter car-basically fitting the same role as a luxury version of a Leaf. The average consumer, even well off consumers, don't want a Leaf or Prius. They want a EV they can drive to parents on Thanksgiving or to a client site 100 miles away. They simply want to replace ICE with EV. Tesla allows you to do that but Porsche really doesn't. Even though I consider them irrelevant they are clearly well engineered. Slow careful German engineering. When you are striving to compete in a fast new world...slow careful is not likely to remain relevant.
Mostly I want to see the end of ICE's. Clearly VW does not and they were very willing to destroy human health and break any number of laws to keep ICE relevant.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Because <random youtuber> says so.
DragTimes is a "random youtuber" but we're supposed to take an "entertainment" tv show at their word, when they have a history of misrepresenting vehicles for comedy?
LOL...try again.
Because <random youtuber> says so.
Youtuber Treelon agrees with:
Treelon on Twitter
Ninjaed by @juanmedina
I mean if you're going to throw all these contingencies in...doesn't it still seem impressive that the Taycan won "out of the box" without any "launch mode" or "plaid mode" gimmicks?
extra 50HP for the model S might put the trap speed at around 129-132mph trap speed.
You must have seen a different video than I did. Besides, for the Vbox times it doesn't matter which driver got the jump on the other since they are independently measured in each car.
The 2.4s times are excluding the 1ft rollout time. If you add that back, you end up exactly at the kind of times around 2.6s that Topgear measured. Look at the 1/4 mile trap speed, that can't be fudged.
But of course, if someone beats Tesla, it has to be some kind of mistake/cheat/conspiracy.
You must like being lied to. I saw the video. Those aren't the numbers from that race. Those numbers came from here:
Tesla Model S and Merc-AMG E63 vs the stopwatch
But the point I'm trying to say if you didn't get it is why is Top Gear (Porsche paid?) showing wrong numbers for the Model S when the Taycan won? What is wrong with Tesla being really close? Does Porsche need to throw shade at Tesla to make the $$$ premium more palatable? People cancelling their reservations? Top Gear needed clicks? Nah, can't be clicks.
It was expected the Taycan would beat the Model S (especially for how much they're charging).
I for one am waiting for Brooks to show how much performance one is actually getting for that majorly extra $$$
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
If I going to fake it, I can make a Corolla beat the S without any whatchamacallit gimmicks.
no offense but everything you wrote was wrong. Two key observations : 1) you seem to harp at price and the fact that Porsche will not be able to scale to get the price down. 2) you highlight that as of today that this will largely be a cummuter car only.
As far as #1 i think it is pretty obvious to all (but you apparently) that Porsche has never been (nor likely never will be) interested in mass market. Thats not their thing. Their "thing" is making driver focused cars. The people that really car about that aren't the type that go thru the calculus you described. No offense but would you also behmone Bentley for making an electric car that happens to cost +$200k that didn't happen to match the specs of an S? I hope you understand the meaning of the word demographics. Getting to scale is irrelevant /non factor. Worse it is the exact opposite of what VW wants for Porsche (research the term "Halo brand") #2) VW is (slowly) building out their network so in time the coast to coast argument will go away. BUT again the demographics of most Porsche 911 and even Panamera owners I know pretty much use their Porsche like one would a vetted. It is clearly meant as a 2nd car. Again if you can't get this you are simply not in the demographic. No offense. I'm not either but I work with a lot that are this the reason your logic seems at odds with typical Porsche guy
That company is well known for cheating.
Did every one forget CLEAN DIESEL from the same company.
Eno Deb
Active Member
He can agree all he wants, but neither he nor the Youtuber were there. How would they know anything about Topgear's measurements? It's all just speculation. If Treelon wants honest comparisons, he could start by dropping the rollout time shenanigans for the Performance cars.
If the software update pushes Tesla to the front again, kudos to them. Ain't competition great?
MightyHawk
Member
I know the Porsche demographic. Macans, Cayennes and Panameras are daily drivers. 911s are mostly weekend cars except in very good climates. Boxsters and Caymans can be weekend or daily cars based upon the owner's budget and location.
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