Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

I'm sure this will be a sticky on all of the vehicle forums shortly:

NHTSA Recalls Every Tesla Equipped With 'Full Self-Driving Beta' Over Crash Risks

The safety agency is requiring a software update to Tesla Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, saying FSD Beta "may allow the vehicle to act unsafe."

jalopnik.com

(moderator note: related threads here…)
FSD Recall? in Software
Recall FUD in Uk

"Full Self Driving Tesla" by rulenumberone2 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[2101Guy]

I dont understand something about this - isn't the thing with a level 2 system that it is expected to get things wrong and so the driver must always be ready to take control immediately? So why is Tesla strictly required to fix these issues at all? Is it because they are persistent repeatable violations of traffic code rather than just bugs or general shortcomings/limitations in performance?

This is showing as a "voluntary" recall. Tesla isnt forced to do this recall

 

[EVNow]

The short term fix really can't be anything other than disabling FSD for the wide public. That will immediately resolve the problems identified by the NHTSA.
Because the other option is to make FSD work correctly in all the scenarios outlined by the NHTSA, which means... basically finishing FSD. And that might require Hardware 4 for all we know.

I think a lot of people are misinterpreting this "recall".

Note that these FSDb recalls have happenned in the past.

It is not even clear to me the problems were noticed by NHTSA or noted by Tesla and they decided to recall "out of an abundance of caution on February 7, 2023.".

To me it feels like they found a specific bug(s) and they already have the fix ready. Then they informed NHTSA.

We'll get the fix soon.

I dont understand something about this - isn't the thing with a level 2 system that it is expected to get things wrong and so the driver must always be ready to take control immediately? So why is Tesla strictly required to fix these issues at all? Is it because they are persistent repeatable violations of traffic code rather than just bugs or general shortcomings/limitations in performance?

"Documents show that Tesla decided to administer the voluntary recall out of an abundance of caution on February 7, 2023."

 

[filezz]

I came back from lunch today using FSD with no issues. With Cazy's all around me, screaming kids, a wife on the rag and a hangover. My life is now over!!!!

 

[2101Guy]

"In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits"

You dont say?

 

[Silicon Desert]

I dont understand something about this - isn't the thing with a level 2 system that it is expected to get things wrong and so the driver must always be ready to take control immediately? So why is Tesla strictly required to fix these issues at all? Is it because they are persistent repeatable violations of traffic code rather than just bugs or general shortcomings/limitations in performance?

My wife says it is a great question that she doesn't understand either. I said if you ask a hundred people that question, you will probably get 200 different opinions

 

[Matias]

Did you actually read the 4 scenarios laid out? All it would require is modifying some functions specifically related to those, Tesla might even already have a toggle that they can just disable (just like the rolling stop recall). NHTSA does not give a hard immediate deadline either, only says an update will be issued in the coming weeks.

Completely disagree it means finishing FSD.

Tesla doesn't have a fix for recall problems. If it had, it would already have done it.

Problems described in the recall have been on the FSD since the day one

 

[filezz]

Maybe 11.3 is the fix??

 

[Matias]

Tesla has the ability to push an update to your car via LTE, but it has never been clearly demonstrated that it would auto install (people who claim so, have not eliminated possibly of accidentally clicking on the scheduling nag).

FYI you can always cancel a scheduled update (even if you accidentally clicked to allow it), by clicking it to immediately install, and then cancelling the install. This will restore the nag that asks you to schedule an update.

Tesla disabled the lowest suspension height because of highway debris accidents. This was done with forced update.

 

[Dewg]

I love that Tesla is having to admit to issues that several here were of the "hey, mine never does that. FSD drives me from my garage 50 miles to work through roundabouts, past firetrucks, on lanes with no white lines with children in the middle of the road wearing all white during a blizzard and I NEVER have a problem or have those issues" mantra.

I love that you get to dictate what experiences people have. You just cannot wrap your head around the idea that some people don't have a problem with their cars. I feel bad for you.

 

[Supcom]

Tesla is very unlikely to force an update installation since it prevents any use of the car during the install. However, I expect that they could simply disable FSD features for cars that do not update software before a set deadline.

It is also unlikely that FSD will be disabled prior to an update being available - especially if there are no known crashes or injuries due to the issues. It is possible that a condition of Tesla voluntarily issuing a recall was that they could continue to have FSD functional while they prepare the fixes.

 

[Jcl007]

"In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits"

You dont say?

I’ve also had it turn from a 55 street into another 55 street, for it to immediately lower the speed to 25 since it thinks that’s the speed (country road with no signs). The map data is not great.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla doesn't have a fix for recall problems. If it had, it would already have done it.

Not true, this is happening like the rolling stop recall, which Tesla already had a preexisting toggle they only need to turn off, but it was still done as a recall that they had to roll out.

Problems described in the recall have been on the FSD since the day one

Tesla doesn't view these as problems, the reports note Tesla disagrees with NHTSA, but they are doing it on their request.

 

[DarkForest]

Did you actually read the 4 scenarios laid out? All it would require is modifying some functions specifically related to those, Tesla might even already have a toggle that they can just disable (just like the rolling stop recall). NHTSA does not give a hard immediate deadline either, only says an update will be issued in the coming weeks.

Completely disagree it means finishing FSD.

They might have a point...

There's a road near where I live with a 30 MPH speed limit. Whenever FSD turns onto that road, it speeds up to 55 MPH until it gets to the 30 MPH speed limit sign. I'm guessing it's bad map data.

I have no idea how they could fix that in FSD, though. As a human, without knowing what the speed limit was on a street, you would follow traffic or proceed cautiously until you see a speed limit sign. I've noticed the Beta started being more cautious when it speeds up a few months ago, but it's not enough to properly handle this situation.

 

[Ruffles]

I love the dichotomy of posts:

FSD is terrible, worthless, garbage and should be removed from the road.
-and-
I'm disabling updates, they'll have to pry FSD from my cold, dead hands.

It's not that we blindly think it's perfect. It's far from it but in my experience, it provides value as is. Warts and all. I've been in the beta since 10.2 and seen overall progress. I've also seen the NHTSA dictate completely stupid crap such as disabling my boom box because I could change the noise and remove my ability to roll up my windows when I walk away from the car or from the app. Their overreach is insane and they are never pressed to quantify how something "could" increase a "risk".

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla is very unlikely to force an update installation since it prevents any use of the car during the install. However, I expect that they could simply disable FSD features for cars that do not update software before a set deadline.

It is also unlikely that FSD will be disabled prior to an update being available - especially if there are no known crashes or injuries due to the issues. It is possible that a condition of Tesla voluntarily issuing a recall was that they could continue to have FSD functional while they prepare the fixes.

The statement by NHTSA already says they will not disable FSD while fix is rolling out. It simply does not match how NHTSA has always operated. The people suggesting such is just baselessly being hysterical.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I love that you get to dictate what experiences people have. You just cannot wrap your head around the idea that some people don't have a problem with their cars. I feel bad for you.

yeah and it is why I have many such people on ignore. I see good and not so good in FSD, and I don't need people telling me I need to change my mind to agree with their view.

 

[LiamPope]

This is showing as a "voluntary" recall. Tesla isnt forced to do this recall

I think a lot of people are misinterpreting this "recall".

Note that these FSDb recalls have happenned in the past.

It is not even clear to me the problems were noticed by NHTSA or noted by Tesla and they decided to recall "out of an abundance of caution on February 7, 2023.".

To me it feels like they found a specific bug(s) and they already have the fix ready. Then they informed NHTSA.

We'll get the fix soon.



"Documents show that Tesla decided to administer the voluntary recall out of an abundance of caution on February 7, 2023."

My wife says it is a great question that she doesn't understand either. I said if you ask a hundred people that question, you will probably get 200 different opinions

Fair enough! Perhaps I'm just confused by bad reporting in the linked article? Headline 'NHTSA recalls...' and 'The safety agency is requiring...' Doesn't sound quite like Tesla are doing it out of kindness - more like they have been instructed! But is that just how things work over there - the NHTSA is kindly announcing this voluntary recall on behalf of Tesla? Article written a bit sensationalist?

 

[GSP]

…….

Problems described in the recall have been on the FSD since the day one

I am not sure about that. I never experienced FSD going through stale yellow lights, some even turning red, before recent updates. Same for the extremely slow response to lower speed limits or the driver lowering the speed manually. It just coasts for blocks before getting down to the new speed, definitely would get a ticket or worse if I did not hit the brakes and disengage. My memory might be off, but I am pretty sure that it used to slow down more quickly to a new set speed.

I will be glad to have software that fixes these issues by restoring the previous behavior.

Based on the language in NHTSA’s document, I am hopeful that I still can set the speed above the limit, otherwise it will be unusable in many places where there is heavy traffic going 5-15 mph over. Even more important are the 45 or 55 mph roads where the car incorrectly thinks the speed limit is 25 mph.

GSP

Edit: Here is NHTSA’s document. Much better to read the orginal vs. getting information second hand from news articles:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF

 

[Matias]

Not true, this is happening like the rolling stop recall, which Tesla already had a preexisting toggle they only need to turn off, but it was still done as a recall.

Tesla doesn't view these as problems, the reports note Tesla disagrees with NHTSA, but they are doing it on their request.

“traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, —-. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits.”

Tesla doesn’t view these as problems?

 

[PianoAl]

This is my concern:

• NHTSA said "the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits."

FSDb is crucial for me because it allows me to override misinterpreted truck speed limit signs (e.g. 30 MPH instead of 55 MPH). Maybe they will limit that the way it's limited to 5 over in AP.

I agree that the car is way too slow in changing speeds when hitting a new limit, and I'm okay with changing that.