Tesla belatedly tries to make their connector a North American standard

[Rocky_H]

Breaking news! CharIN has published a pretty blunt and scathing response to Tesla's submission of NACS. Short version: they think it's a bad idea to try to push a new standard when we already have one.

CharIN Response to Tesla Announcement to Open the North America Charging Standard – CharIN

Empowering the next level of e-mobility by developing and establishing the Combined Charging System (CCS) as the global standard for charging battery powered electric vehicles.

www.charin.global

 

[ElectricIAC]

Breaking news! CharIN has published a pretty blunt and scathing response to Tesla's submission of NACS. Short version: they think it's a bad idea to try to push a new standard when we already have one.

CharIN Response to Tesla Announcement to Open the North America Charging Standard – CharIN

Empowering the next level of e-mobility by developing and establishing the Combined Charging System (CCS) as the global standard for charging battery powered electric vehicles.

www.charin.global

Doesn’t CCS have some pretty mediocre limitations?

 

[DrGriz]

Breaking news! CharIN has published a pretty blunt and scathing response to Tesla's submission of NACS. Short version: they think it's a bad idea to try to push a new standard when we already have one.

CharIN Response to Tesla Announcement to Open the North America Charging Standard – CharIN

Empowering the next level of e-mobility by developing and establishing the Combined Charging System (CCS) as the global standard for charging battery powered electric vehicles.

www.charin.global

When they say that in North America over 50 car models use CCS did they actually mean models, or individual cars? (j/k)

I mean, they did carefully not address the percentage of cars on the road both now and anticipated over the next few years.

That said, the history of this is unfortunate and it would be very nice I think if Betamax wasn't going to be replaced by VHS.

 

[terranx]

They also keep referring it to an international standard, neglecting to mention that CCS1 and CCS2 don't have much more in common with each other than CCS and the NACS.

Also neglecting to mention that China and Japan don't use CCS at all.

 

[henderrj]

Breaking news! CharIN has published a pretty blunt and scathing response to Tesla's submission of NACS. Short version: they think it's a bad idea to try to push a new standard when we already have one.

CharIN Response to Tesla Announcement to Open the North America Charging Standard – CharIN

Empowering the next level of e-mobility by developing and establishing the Combined Charging System (CCS) as the global standard for charging battery powered electric vehicles.

www.charin.global

Big surprise here! They were the ones pushing for this standard in the 1st place, of course they're still gonna say it's the only way to go. I do wonder if a few companies pick up the Tesla standard, if it'll go. It is so obviously superior, but Betamax!

 

[stopcrazypp]

They also keep referring it to an international standard, neglecting to mention that CCS1 and CCS2 don't have much more in common with each other than CCS and the NACS.

Also neglecting to mention that China and Japan don't use CCS at all.

Yeah, that part was fairly disingenuous, given NACS is a North American standard, just like CCS1 largely is. If the figures were instead isolated to CCS1, the story would be a lot different.

That said, I never would expect Charin to be receptive. I just hope the various standards bodies (most importantly SAE) won't play favorites in a similar way.

 

[cleverscreenam]

With deceptive wordplay like that, Charin has promising careers as politicians.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics." You can make anything true with a couple of well-placed, and well-omitted, statistics.

 

[GOVA]

I wonder, why now? If they were going to do this, why not five years ago?

Opening the North American Charging Standard | Tesla

www.tesla.com

because 5 years ago Tesla had produced ~280K cars a year and had 1,421 chargers. Just compare it to now and other EV manufacturer numbers.
Also, Tesla plug is the best form factor from all I've seen that can perform equeally well.

 

[SVMike]

because 5 years ago Tesla had produced ~280K cars a year and had 1,421 chargers. Just compare it to now and other EV manufacturer numbers.
Also, Tesla plug is the best form factor from all I've seen that can perform equeally well.

I'm thinking that in 2017 (5 years ago) they only made just over 100K cars

 

[GOVA]

I'm thinking that in 2017 (5 years ago) they only made just over 100K cars

Yep, even better, makes my point more valid.

Tesla now has grown ~15-20 times while others have done next to nothing.
The plug is small and works well with many future improvements accounted for. This is what I vote for instead of using much larger and not needed monstrosities.

 

[dusty22]

If average, everyday, non technical EV owners got to vote on which plug to adopt, I wonder which one woulld win?

 

[israndy]

No you don't

 

[KJD]

OK we have fourteen pages of good discussion here, but it still appears to me that it will take another couple of months to see how things shake out here.

It looks like Tesla might have one other small producer (Aptera) using their new “standard” and no one else is interested, as far as I can tell.

Are we in for a VHS - Betamax standards war ? It would appear so to me.

The only real reason Tesla is opening up their standard at all is the chance to suck up some gov. subsidies. Tesla has the most extensive network right now and by the looks of things it will stay that way for at least several more years. Tell me I am wrong.

Tesla has said that it will open up the charging network by the end of the year. What are the chances of this becoming reality ?
Elon time ?

The first V4 location is supposedly under construction right now right? Or is this still in the permit stage ?

 

[gnuarm]

And do you know how they do this? Because I sure do.
They make a network connection to the salvage vehicle through the vehicle's cellular antenna, and change the DCFC flags stored in gateway.cfg on the MCU.
But yeah, every word of my post was completely true, even if you didn't know/understand it.

wk057, the supreme authority on this topic, has posted that there's no known instances thus far of Tesla using the supercharger-to-vehicle command to permanently disable DCFC (with an EMMC write that root access can't modify, you'd have to replace the chip.)

Sorry, I didn't realize you were picking nits. I was simply pointing out that Tesla does blacklist cars from using the Supercharging network. I'll be more careful around you in the future.

 

[gnuarm]

They also keep referring it to an international standard, neglecting to mention that CCS1 and CCS2 don't have much more in common with each other than CCS and the NACS.

Also neglecting to mention that China and Japan don't use CCS at all.

Either way, there's little reason to have a global standard for the charging connector, any more than a global standard for the power lines. 120V, 220V, 230V, 240V, 50 Hz, 60Hz, 1 phase, 3 phase. Could it be any more complicated? We can't even agree on the DC standard. Doesn't the Porsche use an 800V supply?

I'm hoping for consolidation to the Tesla connector because I don't want my car to become obsolete. I plan to drive it into the ground... but in the good way, not like a plane crash.

 

[DuncanM]

The CCS1 to NACS adapter is quite useful; our winter home is in rural SE Arizona and there's two EA CCS1 stations conveniently located at Walmarts (Benson AZ, Deming NM) along the I-10, so we can shop for groceries whilst our M3 RWD is charging. EA stations have a terrible reliability problem with their 350kw DCF chargers. In 6 stops, we've yet to find a 350kw charger that was working properly. The 150kw chargers seem better.

 

[cleverscreenam]

The supercharge ability and 3rd-party DC fast charge ability are stored settings in each individual Tesla vehicle. Tesla superchargers have VIN communication and setting-changing abilities, but so far hasn't used them to blacklist anyone.

Not completely true. They blacklist cars they don't want on their network, such as salvage cars that have been restored.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were picking nits. I was simply pointing out that Tesla does blacklist cars from using the Supercharging network. I'll be more careful around you in the future.

Pot, meet kettle Man, you sure have a short memory

 

[meitschis]

NACS is not bleated. It comes out 2 years before they will finalize MCS.

This is more about the reality of mega charging. Cybertruck has a 1000V architecture, it needs a lot more than V3 (~300kW) and CCS (!350kW) can provide (by standard and by deployment). Other new Teslas will have 1000V architectures, too. Roadster? Refreshed S and X?

Tesla will roll out lots of V4 with NACS for all these passenger vehicles. With pull through stalls for towing Cybertrucks (and Model Y). These will happen at Superchargers along the freeways, especially at truck stops, and with a little bit of care, can be used by Semi trucks and Cybertrucks both.

Other truck manufacturers will have a hard decision to make. Wait for MCS (standard, and deployment) or go with NACS.

It's not aptera. It's the truck manufacturers Tesla is looking at right now.

 

[Cosmacelf]

NACS is not bleated. It comes out 2 years before they will finalize MCS.

This is more about the reality of mega charging. Cybertruck has a 1000V architecture, it needs a lot more than V3 (~300kW) and CCS (!350kW) can provide (by standard and by deployment). Other new Teslas will have 1000V architectures, too. Roadster? Refreshed S and X?

Tesla will roll out lots of V4 with NACS for all these passenger vehicles. With pull through stalls for towing Cybertrucks (and Model Y). These will happen at Superchargers along the freeways, especially at truck stops, and with a little bit of care, can be used by Semi trucks and Cybertrucks both.

Other truck manufacturers will have a hard decision to make. Wait for MCS (standard, and deployment) or go with NACS.

It's not aptera. It's the truck manufacturers Tesla is looking at right now.

Do we know what connector semi and v4 will use?

 

[MP3Mike]

Other truck manufacturers will have a hard decision to make. Wait for MCS (standard, and deployment) or go with NACS.

Highly unlikely.

Do we know what connector semi and v4 will use?

V4 Superchargers will use NACS. Semi and Megachargers will likely use MCS, at least from what we have seen. (What we saw was the rectangular prototype that has since been replaced by the triangular version.)