Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[scaesare]

How do you get to 60 from 57,039?

VW is closer to 70 than Tesla to 60.

Admit I just read the headline.

LOL.

Tesla is only 39 cars away from 57K and you round down to that number, rightly so.

VW is only 339 cars away from 67K and not only do you not round down to 67K, you choose to round up, not to 68K, but 70K!

And then you question @mongo facetiously doing the same thing to prove the point.

Spin much?

 

[stopcrazypp]

In Europe isn't the Audi far cheaper than a US car? I remember a $26k Camaro MSRP = $57k in Germany back in the day.

E-tron 50 Edition is 62,700 Euros (59,900 GBP in UK) and even cheaper in Norway at 499,000 NOK (49,940 EUR).

Audi e-tron 50 In Norway Priced 25% Lower Than e-tron 55

Model X prices are 87,980 GBP; 90990 EUR; 903990 NOK, much more expensive.

 

[RobStark]

LOL.

Tesla is only 39 cars away from 57K and you round down to that number, rightly so.

VW is only 339 cars away from 67K and not only do you not round down to 67K, you choose to round up, not to 68K, but 70K!

And then you question @mongo facetiously doing the same thing to prove the point.

Spin much?

Who is spinning?

I admitted I originally just read the headline and took their word for it.

 

[RobStark]

E-tron 50 Edition is 62,7000 Euros (59,900 GBP in UK) and even cheaper in Norway at 499,000 NOK (49,940 EUR).

Audi e-tron 50 In Norway Priced 25% Lower Than e-tron 55

And how many base no option cars are found on European lots?

About as many as $35k Model 3s on Tesla store parking lots.

On dealer lots in Los Angeles the MSRP is between $68.4k and $91.4k

 

[stopcrazypp]

And how many base no option cars are found on European lots?

About as many as $35k Model 3s on Tesla store parking lots.

From comments I read in articles, Europeans rarely order cars off the lots. The cars there are for test driving and then they order to spec themselves and wait a few weeks for delivery (so Tesla's process actually is not as strange to them). If you have stats on how many base models are sold of the e-Tron, feel free to post however.

A quick google verifies this appears to be true:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1yeafp/how_do_car_dealerships_in_japan_and_europe_work/

However, regardless, the low base price is still very attractive to people or Audi wouldn't bother. Certainly (as per my edit) it's much cheaper than the Model X.

 

[RobStark]

From comments I read in articles, Europeans rarely order cars off the lots. The cars there are for test driving and then they order to spec themselves and wait a few weeks for delivery.

Even so how many base cars with zero options are ordered?

This is a very rare occurrence .

 

[stopcrazypp]

Even so how many base cars with zero options are ordered?

This is a very rare occurrence .

Do you have any stats to support that? Especially for this particular vehicle (which isn't exactly a stripped vehicle even in base trim)? What is the ASP (to factor in those adding an option but a relatively inexpensive one)?

 

[scaesare]

Who is spinning?

I admitted I originally just read the headline and took their word for it.

You questioned @mongo after he read the article for you and provided the actual number is his post...

 

[mongo]

You questioned @mongo after he read the article for you and provided the actual number is his post...

It's all good, I neglected the winky or other indication of intent on the original, combine that with Fred's uber rounded (spinning like a top) headline and hilarity ensued.

 

[MXLRplus]

GMC is stealing a page from Tesla's Cheetah Mode. The 1000HP Hummer EV has a WTF mode:

"... you engage Watts to Freedom mode by pressing the traction control button twice. First, the vehicle lowers on its standard air suspension system, then it optimizes the battery temperature for full power delivery and asks you to apply the brake as the seat and subwoofer vibrate the vehicle as the system completes its preparations. The driver is then asked to floor the accelerator, release the brake pedal and the truck is off."

 

[JRP3]

as the seat and subwoofer vibrate the vehicle

So...many...jokes....

 

[petit_bateau]

Do we have any insight into VAG's gross margins on their BEVs ? Or for that matter the other legacy majors (Ford, Toyota, Renault/Nissan/Misubishi, etc).

 

[Cobos]

Even so how many base cars with zero options are ordered?

This is a very rare occurrence .

I would say ALL of them... just ask the wifes All of them are of course base price vehicles.
Yes this is tongue in cheek, but Audi has an extensive option list in Europe, and the base price gets you in the door and then you realise you "need" this and that and this and...
While the Tesla's are mostly sold with almost everything included here. And when the X75D was removed the in the door price just moved out of most peoples reach. Not to mention the move from BIG car that does ski-rack on top of the car to a too big car with funky doors that mean no ski-rack. Keep in mind in 2020 about 20% of ALL e-trons in the world went to tiny Norway with 5 mill people.

 

[adiggs]

So...many...jokes....

But you've resisted the urge. What discipline and constraint you're demonstrating!

 

[Doggydogworld]

Do we have any insight into VAG's gross margins on their BEVs ? Or for that matter the other legacy majors (Ford, Toyota, Renault/Nissan/Misubishi, etc).

No, they don't disclose that. They measure gross margin differently than Tesla, anyway, so it wouldn't be directly comparable.

In other news, VW Group delivered 422k EVs in 2020. That's up ~3x from 2019. 231,600 BEVs and 190,500 PHEVs. They delivered almost as many BEVs in Q4 as the first three quarters combined. PHEVs were also up strongly in Q4.

They originally forecast 4% BEV share, then dropped it to 3-4% then came in a little below 3%. The shortfalls are in China. They forecast 6-8% BEV share in 2021 (down from 8% originally). I suspect they'll miss 6%, too, but should still hit 550-600k BEVs and 200k PHEVs. China is again the question mark, I'm confident they'll exceed 400k BEVs in Europe. No material volume in the low-reg US.

 

[petit_bateau]

No, they don't disclose that. They measure gross margin differently than Tesla, anyway, so it wouldn't be directly comparable.

In other news, VW Group delivered 422k EVs in 2020. That's up ~3x from 2019. 231,600 BEVs and 190,500 PHEVs. They delivered almost as many BEVs in Q4 as the first three quarters combined. PHEVs were also up strongly in Q4.

They originally forecast 4% BEV share, then dropped it to 3-4% then came in a little below 3%. The shortfalls are in China. They forecast 6-8% BEV share in 2021 (down from 8% originally). I suspect they'll miss 6%, too, but should still hit 550-600k BEVs and 200k PHEVs. China is again the question mark, I'm confident they'll exceed 400k BEVs in Europe. No material volume in the low-reg US.

Thank you. I'm not too fussed about a like-for-like GM comparison on BEVs at either firm or model level. All I'm really trying to suss out is the extent to which VAG are making serious money here, a loss, or just about breaking even. Have you any view on that ?

I think it will be 2022 before both VAG and TSLA are head-to-head with mfg at scale in all three continents. At the moment I think we are still just sussing out the competitive terrain.

 

[RubberToe]

Mach-E 2+ month slip, no reason given yet:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ford-sends-mass-mach-e-delivery-delay-emails.2792/

 

[willow_hiller]

Mach-E 2+ month slip, no reason given yet:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ford-sends-mass-mach-e-delivery-delay-emails.2792/

Last minute firmware flashes, maybe? From the forum, folks were told their vehicles were produced and in-transit, only to be now told it'll be an additional 2 months:

My Mach-E is already on a train car according to my dealer, and my email said end of March. Something's up. Can't just be transit related, we know Mach-Es are on the move. There's no way it takes two months for Kansas City Southern to find a locomotive to hitch to the railcar that has my Mach-E already strapped down inside of it.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Last minute firmware flashes, maybe? From the forum, folks were told their vehicles were produced and in-transit, only to be now told it'll be an additional 2 months:

Reminds me of the initial Pacifica PHEV roll-out...which was directly responsible for putting us in a MX instead.

 

[RubberToe]

They can supposedly do firmware/software upgrades either over the air, or at dealers. This seems to smack of something bigger. Reading through the thread, a couple things come to mind: there was the 80% battery charging that dropped off the cliff at a DCFC once 80% was hit. And also issues with getting DCFC charging sessions started too. A two month delay could be that they need to send the cars back to Mexico for fixing versus something that could be repaired at the dealer. Or maybe getting new parts to dealers. Time will tell, interesting that this news hasn't yet hit any of the typical forums where EV's are discussed.

RT