RobStark
Well-Known Member
RAV4 Prime has an 18 kWh battery for 42 mile AER.
PHEVs have to be desirable enough vs other PHEV and BEV for people to actually buy.
PHEVs have to be desirable enough vs other PHEV and BEV for people to actually buy.
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Tesla BEV Competition Developments
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Please if you’re going to quote market share, make it the share of all cars, not of EVs. That’s the one that’s relevant.
All competition is welcome, and I can easily believe there’s more demand for the Mach-e, and cannot believe they so badly underestimated it that they have no battery supply. Forehead, meet wall. What were these people thinking? We’ll make a great EV and nobody will want it? That was Plan A? It’s as embarrassing as Mary Barra claiming they’ll surpass Tesla in 2025 with GM’s ambitious goal of like 1M BEVs. Because surely Austin and Berlin will be producing zero cars by 2025. Forehead… well, you know the rest.
We have a Model X on order, but we’re still in the market for a larger vehicle. Coming from a minivan, both as the family-and-guests hauler and the furniture-hauler. Will check out an R1S some day and a Gravity some day if those companies survive. Would love to see Tesla’s take on the van or people-mover or whatever. Not a given that we’ll ever buy a vehicle that doesn’t Supercharge or have credible OTA updates or built-in nerd humor, of course, but I’d love the day when Tesla wasn’t effectively the only game in town.
Whenever it finally comes.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not if every car is a PHEV or BEV.
Especially as worthwhile BEVs will remain production limited for years at this point.
Slap a crap battery and motor in every camry, you can raise the price 2x what doing that cost you and it's still net cheaper to the customer thanks to qualifying for $4500 in tax credits.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Every car is not going to be a PHEV or BEV anytime soon.
PHEVs with 16 kWh packs get a $7500 credit right now.
Relative to battery size the $4500 subsidy for the 10 kWh PHEV pack would go down slightly.
- Separately, Toyota announced today that it will spend $3.4 billion to develop battery production and build hybrid and electric vehicles in the U.S. Toyota will be pairing with Toyota Tsusho on a lithium-ion-battery plant to open by 2025.
Toyota, Stellantis Spending Big on North American EV Battery Production
Separate announcements today show both automakers are preparing for mass production of electric vehicles and their batteries in the U.S.www.caranddriver.com
Toyota is spending an additional $10B for RoW by 2030. Not a lot relative to VW, GM, Ford, Stellantis but something.
CEO Jim Farley says demand for Mach-e is ~200k/year. Capacity is more like 50k-60k. Trying to get more batteries before their GF are up and running. Like every one else. Reservations for Lightning are 160k. Capacity is 80k/year. Again new facility for next generation electric pickup truck being built next to new Ford GF.
Tesla's US market share was 80% last year and 66% in the first half of this year.
$10B by 2030?!?! That's far less than "not a lot". Didn't VW already commit to spending $86.4B into electric vehicles development by 2025? I'm definitely labeling Toyota as the new Nokia/Motorola.
Also it seems "battery shortages" will be the new chip-shortage excuse for 2022 sales by the legacy automakers.
As for Tesla's market share, goodcarbadcar.com reports that Tesla's culmulative domestic sales remained roughly the same, compared to last year?! 2021 US Vehicle Sales Figures By Brand
That's rather odd, for having delivered 50% more vehicles globally. Something we're missing?
RobStark
Well-Known Member
BEV market share is a relevant metric.
Mary Barra referenced US market share. GM beating Tesla in BEV market in the USA. Fremont and Austin presumably will export some vehicles. It is not competing in Europe with Tesla or anyone else. Save for a handful of Cadillacs.
Anyways, GM selling more BEVs than Tesla in the USA is ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as GM outselling Tesla worldwide in BEVs.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
$3.5B in USA plus $10B RoW for total of $13.5B on battery development and battery factories.
VW number is for BEV platform engineering, battery development,factories and procurement from battery suppliers. VW and many of the OEMs also conflate spending on BEVs and AVs into this very large number being spent by 2030. The Toyota number is more specific.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
For Ford and GM (and Chrysler?) that would be a $9000 subsidy for a 10 KWh PHEV made and assembled in the US though.
The Toyota investment seems to only exclude R&D: "Toyota announced today that it will spend $3.4 billion to develop battery production AND build hybrid and electric vehicles in the U.S"
Also, you've mis-read. VW's numbers were to be spent by 2025, not 2030 like Toyota's numbers.
Xpeng reveal incredible NEW 480kW chargers & 800V platform
Fast charging is impressive here, but the real question is if that degrades the battery...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'd assume that as with many other advertised power ratings that's the max capability of the charger hardware but the car won't charge anywhere near that power level, which would be 6C for their 80kWh pack. LTO is the only chemistry which can take that type of charge rate and it's the most expensive and least power dense lithium cell chemistry. Last I knew Xpeng uses NMC and LFP. LFP could probably handle occasional 4C charging.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Was hoping we'd see a first delivery Lucid review. Maybe next weekend. I'm not looking for panel gaps and the like, but more about the software, Wh/mile actual and driving experience. I have a few friends at Lucid and they have been very quiet.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
GAC Aion V 6C Promises 8-Minute Charge Times, 1000 Kilometer Range - CleanTechnica
GAC claims its new Aion V 6C has exception range and super fast charging times.
cleantechnica.com
Well, we won't have to wait long it seems to see how 'real' this is:GAC Aion V 6C Promises 8-Minute Charge Times, 1000 Kilometer Range - CleanTechnica
GAC claims its new Aion V 6C has exception range and super fast charging times.
"Chinese manufacturer GAC says next month, customers will be able to buy an Aion 6C battery electric SUV that can charge a depleted battery to 80% capacity in a lightning fast 8 minutes. The company claims the car will have a range of 1000 kilometers NEDC, the wildly optimistic standard used in China. EPA range would probably be a little more than half of that but still — 500+ miles of range and an 8 minute charging time? BOOM! That’s the sound of range anxiety fears exploding.
As far as I know, the LG battery cells that Tesla is using are cylindrical. The bad battery cells in the Bolt EV (and Hyundai Kona Electric which also had similar problems) were pouch style.
Although LG/GM did not release all of the details, the problem with the pouch cells seems to have been specific to the cell assembly manufacturing equipment which is presumably quite different than the equipment used on the cylindrical cell assembly line. The bad pouch cells had an internal tear in the anode power tab of the cell and also a wrinkle or unintended fold in the thin plastic separator film that is sandwiched between the anode and cathode layers. A repeatedly wide charge/discharge (from below 25% to near 100%) of the battery over time causes mild swelling and shrinkage of the cell (and presumably together with excess heat due to the partially torn anode tab) the separator eventually develops a failure and the cell shorts out. Or something like that. The cylindrical LG cells don’t have this manufacturing defect.
Is it really? I thought they only delivered ~12 vehicles. And mostly to VIPs, that don't necessarily post YouTube videos/reviews.
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