Tesla infotainment system upgradeable from MCU1 to MCU2

[croman]

Isn't it a federal law that they must give you the original part if you request it? Tesla seems to break and bend laws at will without any repercussions. Absolutely terrible.

There is a core charge which is allowed. I think you have to insist on retaining the broken MCU and offer to pay the core charge. Then they'll set the core charge which seems to vary unfortunately.

 

[viper2ko]

There is a core charge which is allowed. I think you have to insist on retaining the broken MCU and offer to pay the core charge. Then they'll set the core charge which seems to vary unfortunately.

Gotta get those mcu1 back so they can refurbish them.

 

[MP3Mike]

Isn't it a federal law that they must give you the original part if you request it? Tesla seems to break and bend laws at will without any repercussions. Absolutely terrible.

There is a core charge which is allowed. I think you have to insist on retaining the broken MCU and offer to pay the core charge. Then they'll set the core charge which seems to vary unfortunately.

Part of most of the state laws on getting used parts returned is that you have to request they return the parts to you before the service is started.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Isn't it a federal law that they must give you the original part if you request it? Tesla seems to break and bend laws at will without any repercussions. Absolutely terrible.

This is correct. If they fix it under warranty for free they can keep it. If you pay for a replacement part on your car Tesla is required to return the broken part to you by federal law. Personally, I would demand the broken part especially for something that was $2k out of my pocket.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Part of most of the state laws on getting used parts returned is that you have to request they return the parts to you before the service is started.

Not true. They know the law. They know to save the part and ask you if you want it and it doesn't matter if it's before or after the work is performed they're required to give you the part they claim is broken. You paid for the new part and you paid for the old part in the purchase price of the car therefore you are legal owner of BOTH parts regardless of what Tesla or any other repair shop tries to tell you. That's just how it works and these laws exist to protect the consumer from fraudulent activities. They can't just keep the the old part against your permission and refuse to return it to you if requested as that's basically theft at the root level. People need to hold Tesla's feet to the fire on this in particular because I see it a lot and Tesla is only doing it because they get away with it. It's illegal and it's shameful that Tesla is intentionally violating so many consumer protection laws in the efforts to "disrupt" the crooked system currently in place.

 

[MP3Mike]

Not true. They know the law. They know to save the part and ask you if you want it and it doesn't matter if it's before or after the work is performed they're required to give you the part they claim is broken. You paid for the new part and you paid for the old part in the purchase price of the car therefore you are legal owner of BOTH parts regardless of what Tesla or any other repair shop tries to tell you. That's just how it works and these laws exist to protect the consumer from fraudulent activities. They can't just keep the the old part against your permission and refuse to return it to you if requested as that's basically theft at the root level. People need to hold Tesla's feet to the fire on this in particular because I see it a lot and Tesla is only doing it because they get away with it. It's illegal and it's shameful that Tesla is intentionally violating so many consumer protection laws in the efforts to "disrupt" the crooked system currently in place.

It isn't that straight-forward, and they can charge you a core-charge if you want to keep the part. For example here is the relevant law in WA:

RCW 46.71.021
Disposition of replaced parts.
Except for parts covered by a manufacturer's or other warranty or parts that must be returned to a distributor, remanufacturer, or rebuilder, the repair facility shall return replaced parts to the customer at the time the work is completed if the customer requested the parts at the time of authorization of the repair. If a customer at the time of authorization of the repair requests the return of a part that must be returned to the manufacturer, remanufacturer, distributor, recycler, or rebuilder, or must be disposed of as required by law, the repair facility shall offer to show the part to the customer. The repair facility need not show a replaced part if no charge is being made for the replacement part.

Notice that you have to make your request to keep the part when you authorize the repair. You can't just ask for the part after the repair has been completed. (Well you can but they don't have to honor your request.)

In Michigan they are a little more consumer friendly:

Return Replaced Parts
Along with an itemized final invoice, the law entitles the customer to all replaced parts. If the customer neither asks for a replaced part nor authorizes you to throw it away – in other words, he or she does not mention the part – you must keep it for two business days after the vehicle is picked up. If you ask and the customer does not want the part, you may throw it away. If you have an exchange agreement with your supplier for a certain used part, you must show the part to the customer first before giving it to the supplier or hold the part for two business days. The customer may keep the part, provided the customer pays you the core charge.

But there is still the core charge.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

Isn't it a federal law that they must give you the original part if you request it? Tesla seems to break and bend laws at will without any repercussions. Absolutely terrible.

Not really, there are exchange costs or core cost. Same as when you replace other items like a battery, radiator or alternator. It's how they keep the costs down. Besides that component has preparatory information on it

 

[Ostrichsak]

It isn't that straight-forward, and they can charge you a core-charge if you want to keep the part. For example here is the relevant law in WA:



Notice that you have to make your request to keep the part when you authorize the repair. You can't just ask for the part after the repair has been completed. (Well you can but they don't have to honor your request.)

In Michigan they are a little more consumer friendly:



But there is still the core charge.

There is zero verbiage by Tesla regarding "core charge" so this is a nonstarter in this discussion.

Tesla needs to give parts back to customers who pay for them. They're slowly destroying their name by pulling such shady practices.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Not really, there are exchange costs or core cost. Same as when you replace other items like a battery, radiator or alternator. It's how they keep the costs down. Besides that component has preparatory information on it

So if your iPhone craps out and you buy a new one Apple is authorized to keep your old one w/o your permission since it has their OS on it? Same goes for Windows PCs and just about every piece of electronics these days that is powered by some proprietary software. If Tesla wants to keep it they need to replace it for free under warranty or, at an absolute minimum, offer a core charge program and let the consumer decide of they want to keep it or exchange it for the credit. The way Tesla is currently doing this is crooked even if consumer laws didn't exist. This is why they were created in the first place.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

So if your iPhone craps out and you buy a new one Apple is authorized to keep your old one w/o your permission since it has their OS on it? Same goes for Windows PCs and just about every piece of electronics these days that is powered by some proprietary software. If Tesla wants to keep it they need to replace it for free under warranty or, at an absolute minimum, offer a core charge program and let the consumer decide of they want to keep it or exchange it for the credit. The way Tesla is currently doing this is crooked even if consumer laws didn't exist. This is why they were created in the first place.

Exactly,Tesla needs to offer a core charge program and let the consumer decide of they want to keep it or exchange it for the credit.
So far, that is neither expressed or implied

 

[CuriousG]

How long did it take for them to fix it? My understanding is they don't give loaners anymore.

I think this is case by case by service centers. California probably has their whole fleet coverage from Enterprise. When I had my MCU replaced, they had my car for 6 days. Well actually 5 but I didn't want to drive out there when they told me it was done. In actuality, it probably took more like 3 days as it sat over the weekend. A month and a half prior to the MCU going black, they reflashed my MCU with engineering help and that took 3 days.

 

[CuriousG]

Also, when it failed, the car was still drivable but could not be charged, so I was able to drive it to the service center.

This is the first thing I would do (test charging) if an MCU dies as I learned the hard way. I had to get car towed on my dime.

 

[geoffmanley]

Isn't it a federal law that they must give you the original part if you request it? Tesla seems to break and bend laws at will without any repercussions. Absolutely terrible.

I'm quite sure there is no federal law like that. They are taking your broken part and replacing it with a refurbished one. Where do you think the refurbished ones come from?

 

[ByeOil]

Hynix EMMC in MCU1s has 3000 rated nand erase cycles (at least that's what Tesla uses as the baseline). Recently they started to gather this usage statistics and show the undocumented command to use it so now rooted users actually do know what their overwrite count is. e.g. on my car it's at 989 right now.

I saw one report of a dead emmc at ~4k erase cycles but it's really dependent on a bunch of stuff as you know.

diagnostic does not really know when the data would be lost this suddenly because it depends as well, as such they have this rated number at which they still retain electrons marginally well enough in some benchmark conditions, and as you go further into erases data deteriorates.
wear levelling ensures that all cells are pretty much uniformly damaged which in particular means it's read-only data that's more likely to turn up wrong because it's not being overwritten/refreshed as often as the worn NAND cells need.

Paradoxically I think this means that once your EMMC is worn enough, decreasing write rate is counterproductive because readonly data is not being migrated around often enough to keep it readable.

Am I understanding this correctly. If you have a MCU1 in your Tesla, after about 3,000 updates the MCU will stop working? If that's the case I will stop installing updates until I can ascertain if the upgrades are worth it. I have a 2015 Model S 70D with the MCU1. The last several updates I did not see any change other than the update release #. For now I will hold off until I can research each update to see if I will receive them or not.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I don't want to be the "get off my lawn" guy, but can we keep this thread about the MCU1->MCU2 upgrade (or lack thereof) and move the EMMC failure discussion to this thread: Preventive eMMC replacement on MCU1

 

[MP3Mike]

Am I understanding this correctly. If you have a MCU1 in your Tesla, after about 3,000 updates the MCU will stop working? If that's the case I will stop installing updates until I can ascertain if the upgrades are worth it. I have a 2015 Model S 70D with the MCU1. The last several updates I did not see any change other than the update release #. For now I will hold off until I can research each update to see if I will receive them or not.

It isn't the number of updates, it is the number of writes to the storage. Which happens all the time while the MCU is awake for logging purposes as well as a buffer for streaming audio/radio. So the more you stream the more wear happens to the eMMC.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

So are you are saying service told you your emmc in your 2013 mcu is nowhere close to failing? Is that the original mcu?

I had service perform an LTE upgrade to my MCU when that upgrade became available. I don't recall whether that was just an add-on to the existing unit or required a whole new unit. Service told me that squashfs errors are a sign of a failing MCU and that my unit shows no such errors. Whether it's "nowhere close to failing" is anyone's guess. I don't think Tesla can diagnose whether something is nowhere close to failing.

I live in Arizona and the vehicle is subject to intense heat and sunlight. I have not had the bubbling or the yellowing problem. My MCU looks and acts like the day the car was new.

 

[whitex]

I think this is case by case by service centers. California probably has their whole fleet coverage from Enterprise. When I had my MCU replaced, they had my car for 6 days. Well actually 5 but I didn't want to drive out there when they told me it was done. In actuality, it probably took more like 3 days as it sat over the weekend. A month and a half prior to the MCU going black, they reflashed my MCU with engineering help and that took 3 days.

5 days to replace an MCU, that is horrible efficiency by industry standard, but not bad on the Elon company efficiency spectrum (recent Elon innovation is to queue up few days worth of repair on the SC parking lot, based on my latest experience). As a comparison, Lexus once changed out my entire infotainment and some other parts involved with the IC and BT in 3 hrs from the time I dropped it off to the time I picked it up, and they have me a loaner.

 

[chillaban]

5 days to replace an MCU, that is horrible efficiency by industry standard, but not bad on the Elon company efficiency spectrum.

Is it that horrible? This is counting spanning a weekend without info about whether the drop off and pick up was at the beginning or end of a shift. Sounds like at worst 3 business days inclusive of pickup and drop off which doesn't sound awful?

 

[whitex]

Is it that horrible? This is counting spanning a weekend without info about whether the drop off and pick up was at the beginning or end of a shift. Sounds like at worst 3 business days inclusive of pickup and drop off which doesn't sound awful?

Awful for customers (and for company which has to pay for this level of inefficiency), but apparently that is Elon style. Last time I had an hour fix, SC explained to me that my car will be parked for up to a couple of days on the lot while waiting to get into the shop. I asked whether I could just schedule a time and bring the car then, but was told their process requires the cars to sit on the lot waiting. The appointment was made a month in advance too.

Elon is clueless how to run an automotive company. He's using agile development meant for web app development for cars (both software and hardware)! Apparently he's now adopted some consumer electronics RMA shop process he heard of somewhere where you mail in your device and it sits in a queue for techs to fix it. If I was to guess, I would think this was an Elon micromanagement response to SC's being completely overwhelmed and unable to actually plan out their work like other automotive repair shops. Yes it may increase the tech throughput (they NEVER run out of work or have to wait for anything, there is always few days worth of work waiting in the parking lot) but it screws up customer experience and if they have to pay for loaners, they are costing the company money.

Remember Elon's hype about everyone getting a P100D while their car is in service? That is how detached Elon is from reality.