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Tesla making HUGE mistake with Superchargers
- Thread starter Vicj
- Start date
For those following possible NEVI funding for Supercharger sites Oregon has released a little more information on their requirements to qualify for NEVI funding in Oregon: https://www.oregon.gov/odot/climate/Documents/NEVI FAQ.pdf
- 3) 150kW stalls
- 1) 350kW stall
- 2) stalls available and wired ready to install 350kW chargers in the future
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
So Tesla will need their v4 Supercharger to qualify for the 350+kW capability. I didn't see anything about CCS but I imagine that is a requirement too
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Who would purchase and install the Supercharger hardware? You mean like the same 400 volt hardware only with CCS and CHAdeMO plugs? Would be pretty slow for 500 amp CCS charging compared to the 750 amp Tesla charging. How would you start the charge? Could be good for places that don't charge you for electricity, like CalTrans, just plug and go. But if you are gonna pay for charging you'd at least need a way for Plugshare to activate the charger in your name.
In Europe they rely on people installing the Tesla app to start the charge and for billing. If Tesla is going to provide hardware to third parties to like EA or EVgo, this is a nonstarter, as it will need the ability to process payments on the stall, use NFC, etc.
I think the reference is to state laws in California and some other states that just don't allow that. The laws governing these new charging stations are requiring actual credit card processing and physical screens directly on the charge stations themselves. They don't allow for it to be handled on car screens or phone app screens.
That's a whole other interesting discussion. The law seems to be written with the thinking that having the processing on the stations makes it more accessible to everyone. It doesn't require anyone to have a cell phone and use cellular data plans, and people don't have to sign up for apps and accounts. Those are true, but the card readers and screens on the stations are quite a maintenance problem and unreliability problem.
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TunaBug
Member
Is that true? I thought the intent of requiring a reader & screen on the charger is so that you are not required to have a phone with an app. But do any laws/rules ban using a phone with app? I didn't think so.
Either way, Tesla's supercharger units do not pass muster.
Kind of missed what I meant there. If multiple payment methods are available, like phone app OR a credit card reader and screen on the station, then sure, that works. I just meant you can't have it rely on just phone instead of having an interface on the station. This was in response to someone saying Tesla should just sell their equipment setup to other companies, and that won't pass, because they are just blank pedestals with no interface.
It seems like Tesla has started opening the Supercharger network at select sites:
I checked in the Tesla app and couldn't get that site to show up in the charging your non-Tesla section of the app...
And it apparently works now: (Or maybe this tweet isn't from that location.)
There is a destination charger there that he could be using, but obviously the Tesla Find Us page mentions CCS compatibility...
I tried but couldn't get the QR code to scan from his picture.
I checked in the Tesla app and couldn't get that site to show up in the charging your non-Tesla section of the app...
And it apparently works now: (Or maybe this tweet isn't from that location.)
There is a destination charger there that he could be using, but obviously the Tesla Find Us page mentions CCS compatibility...
I tried but couldn't get the QR code to scan from his picture.
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P90D
Member
Opening Superchargers to other EV manufacturers expands the control Tesla can exert over the EV market. It's a trivial task to manage the resource to maintain the (already overcrowded) standard of service for Tesla owners at Superchargers. There's no reason to suppose Tesla intends to open the Superchargers without control. Billing and access are already tightly controlled. Tesla need only add an automated towing service to make sure charging bays are vacated promptly.
For example, let's say Superchargers are "open" in '23 … by '24 there will be at least one manufacturer which has adopted the NACS or built hardware to interface with Tesla's billing system. The manufacturers latest models built in '24 will be compatible with the hardware and software of Superchargers. Perhaps that manufacturer builds 50K vehicles in '24 or '25. Tesla allows new vehicles access regionally to prevent overcrowding. There'd be plenty of access in some states, but major Tesla regions would quickly run out of "quota" for NACS-compatible vehicles.
A user arrives at a Supercharger site, backs into the charging bay (necessarily accessing the Supercharger pedestal without obstructing adjacent bays,) connects to a V4 Supercharger, receives their 250kW or up to 1MW charge, reaches 60% or some quota limit, and the session ends. A network of tow companies is alerted to an "overstay" vehicle. If the driver moves their vehicle in the next five minutes, they receive only a nominal fee for the overstay. If they don't move, they're towed within ten minutes of the session ending. If they try to extend their session duration, and the site has no queue of waiting users, they can stay and pay a little higher rate for the extended session. If the tow companies don't reach the vehicle promptly, the user incurs a penalty. If the user repeats the abuse, their vehicle loses access and goes on an immediate tow watchlist. Cameras at Supercharger sites monitor for personal security and scan vehicle plates and windshield VINs … immediately responding to overstay recidivism.
That's why I only use NFC/tap to pay for gas. If the pump doesn't have NFC, I'll pay inside. But most of the time, I'll try to use only gas stations that I know have NFC at the pump.
The V4 design seems to have a longer cable, attached on the opposite side from v3 that appears to be more flexible for charge port position.
Per the video he posted later, he was just charging via the destination charger. His point was that it bills you through the app, and the billing part is already working (so "yes, you'll be able to pay when supercharging with your CCS car, when they enable that in the future")
Link:
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Still curious what Tesla means by "CCS compatibility" at the Hawthorne site from that post you reference
P90D
Member
There's one of those HPWCs at 32A with 1772 that I've used in California. It was free. I imagine Tesla intends to "sacrifice" these to whatever NACS rollout they're going to attempt to use to (a) comply with coming regulations for compatibility and network support and (b) promote NACS (because HPWC are L2 sitting beside DCFC at 10x the charge curve performance.)
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I saw elsewhere that it appears that Tesla is going to setup its first Open To The Public Supercharger near the design center in Hawthorne, I think that's where they introduced the V3 Supercharger, so there is some history there. They'll just add the locking CCS adapter to each of the charging posts so that people following the CCS Compatibility map in the Tesla app can come and charge their Non-Tesla EVs (other than Nissan Leafs of course).
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