SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Nissan may serve your segment.
Or check out the Prius Prime. I have one and like it a lot, although it is not a Model 3.
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Or check out the Prius Prime. I have one and like it a lot, although it is not a Model 3.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Phrixotrichus does have a point that people from the US fail to realize. In Germany, the Model 3 will be far more expensive than in the US, making it far less appealing to customers.
Taking the Model S as a template, you have to convert the base price to Euro 1 to 1. Then add 10% import duty and 19% VAT. By applying that logic, the base Model 3 goes from 35K USD to around 46K Euro. Add the PUP, 19'' wheels and some colour other than black and you are at about 56K Euro. And with the larger battery and the abovementioned options you arrive at more than 67K Euro!
Hardly "mass market". And even if you manage to get the 4K Euro BEV incentive, it is still 63K Euro.
That will certainly dampen the appeal quite a bit.
Otoh, of course when you are in California, and factor in all the incentives, you might get that same configuration for about two thirds of what we will have to pay.
Doesn't mean I won't go through with my reservation, but I can fully understand Phrixotrichus.
Taking the Model S as a template, you have to convert the base price to Euro 1 to 1. Then add 10% import duty and 19% VAT. By applying that logic, the base Model 3 goes from 35K USD to around 46K Euro. Add the PUP, 19'' wheels and some colour other than black and you are at about 56K Euro. And with the larger battery and the abovementioned options you arrive at more than 67K Euro!
Hardly "mass market". And even if you manage to get the 4K Euro BEV incentive, it is still 63K Euro.
That will certainly dampen the appeal quite a bit.
Otoh, of course when you are in California, and factor in all the incentives, you might get that same configuration for about two thirds of what we will have to pay.
Doesn't mean I won't go through with my reservation, but I can fully understand Phrixotrichus.
This is a great comparison. Even as a 5X BMW owner, I think the Tesla 3 will be way ahead of the BMW 330i for basically the same money. But the real competition will be the Tesla 3 against the upcoming BMW electric 3. Some debate as to whether the latter actually launches, but I think Tesla is forcing their hand.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I presume that a German car also pays VAT, so what is a local price for a BMW 330i ?
It is not too surprising that Germany protects local production, including dirty diesel. That is hardly a rap against Tesla.
I don't understand this. Tesla said the car would cost $35,000 and the range would be around 210. It is now producing a car that costs $35,00 and has a range of 220. Promise/expectations met, no? Yet, somehow 220 isn't enough because Tesla is also offering an additional 90 miles for an addition $9,000? Winter driving issues were the same a year ago when Tesla announced 210 but somehow that's a problem now that there's also going to be a model that gets 310? I don't understand.
What has been underappreciated is BMW apparently diminishing their "i" division. This is likely a shift from a low volume strategy to high volume "steel" manufacturing.
BMW will likely make a nice 3 series EV that many people will prefer. But that is not a problem for Tesla. Tesla's problem is actually making cars.
Imho Tesla is the only EV manufacturer that produces good looking cars. The Leaf and Prius could be the holy grail of EVs technology wise and I wouldn`t touch them with that design.I guess I´ll simply have to wait for Tesla to bring the battery prices down.
For now I think the model 3 has no chance here in Europe as it will easily end up in bmw5/e-class price ranges
chronopc
Active Member
You're absolutely right that it's an enthusiast car. It's not meant to be a car that everyone can afford like a Camry. When I put down a deposit on the very first day what I was hoping for was a car that was half as expensive as the Model S and provide many of the same Tesla technology. Even though the upgrade for the long range battery is more than I was hoping, the range is also more than I thought it would be. I plan on getting the long range battery and adding autopilot. All of which will come to $45k total price after incentives and taxes.
chronopc
Active Member
BMW has an EV now, the i3, which MSRP is $42k and gives you a whopping 114 miles range.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
It is simple, but irrational.
People convinced themselves that battery upgrades would be $150/kWh and they are now priced out of their dream car, aka a 300+ mile range Tesla at Toyota Camry pricing.
Elon is surprisingly honest. He has been telling people for years that the Model 3 would compete favorably with the entry-level luxury cars from BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc ... and it does. It does not compete well on paper with a Corolla, Camry, Accord or Prius Prime unless one values the incremental upgrades this class of car includes (like power, e.g) or one values the EV drivetrain.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
It sounds like the EV rebate about covers the import tax.
So even in Germany, about similar pricing.
They didn't knock the interior out of the park.
Go read the comments about the interior on a non-telsa fan site like this one: Comments on: Tesla Model 3 Features, Pricing—and a First Drive!
The lack of drivers instrument cluster and the ipad obsession are turning off a TON of potential customers.
So I was actually a bit disappointed with the comparison namely on size specs. I thought the 3 would be bigger on the inside than a 3-series due to innovative packaging and design by Tesla. But what we have is an almost identical interior size-wise with an additional 2 cubic feet of storage space. Having driven 3-series before I'd hardly call them spacious. Wasn't Elon saying he'd shrink the exterior more than the interior? The Electrek article basically says that the 3 series has the same headroom, legroom, hip/shoulder room and cargo room as the Model 3 in basically the same exterior dimensions. What's innovative here (putting aside the drivetrain and other tech)? And with the D next year, I presume frunk will shrink and we will have about the same cargo space as the 3-series, no?
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
If you must have an EV, then there is no better car than M3 in the crowded $35k-$50k price market. But if you are looking for nice car that is well balanced in luxury/performance/RANGE/efficiency/reliability, there are plenty of choices out there. I do not think there is anything wrong with either choice. I consider myself as a EV fanboy. M3 will most likely be my 3rd EV. But at the same time I have been checking out what else I can get for $45k-$50k, and I am very impressed.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It's going to be pretty interesting if the 2018/2019 Nissan leaf comes out with greater than than the base Model 3.
Nope, they have said the Frunk will remain the same size even with the AWD version.
In my opinion, the Model 3 is a great EV for the price. Lot of people here were conditioned to expect the best car for the price period. That happened to be an EV.
You need to be able to win over the people who don't give a rat's behind that the car is powered by electricity versus gasoline. Electrek's unscientific survey noted that the bulk of readers obtaining a Model 3 are from the compact German sedans. Non-EV enthusiasts who are in likely well-optioned compact luxury sedans will be taken aback by some of the design decisions Tesla has made. Let's just say that I'll be steering my technologically challenged family & friends far away from the Model 3.
You need to be able to win over the people who don't give a rat's behind that the car is powered by electricity versus gasoline. Electrek's unscientific survey noted that the bulk of readers obtaining a Model 3 are from the compact German sedans. Non-EV enthusiasts who are in likely well-optioned compact luxury sedans will be taken aback by some of the design decisions Tesla has made. Let's just say that I'll be steering my technologically challenged family & friends far away from the Model 3.
