SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Best rumors are 45 kWh, and you get to enjoy the Chademo network. And don't forget the battery with no cooling -- that is a market darling for sure.
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Except for the Audi A4 base price $36000, which includes
3 zone automatic climate control
Comfort armrest
Sunroof with sunshade power tilt and slide features
Auto dimming interior rear view mirror with digital compass
Trunk storage package (cargo tie-downs, right-side net and grocery hooks
Leather seating surfaces
Eight-way power front seats and four-way power lumbar adjustment for driver
Heated front seats
10 speakers signal CD player with MP3 playback
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto
2 x SDXC card slots with 64GB operating capacity
Audi music interface with two USB ports for data and charging connections
Homelink
Rear view Parking camera
Keyless engine start/stop
Audi pre sense basic
Audi pre sense city
Rain/light sensor for automatic windshield wipers and headlights
Front and rear floor mats
Choice of white or black paint no charge
9 other paints for $575
4 different leather seat colors no charge
And then add 19% VAT to the BMW, and subtract €4,000 from the Tesla for the EV rebate. Good try, though
Then do the same thing to the BMW, which only offers black and basic white base colours and charges €700 for other colours; comes standard in 17" wheels; etc. And PUP isn't an option in either the Model 3 (at least at present) or the 3-series (ever). The 3-series seats are actually unusually swampy in hot weather.
Yet in the U.S. in 2018 it will probably sell about as well as the similarly priced Bolt. Why is that?
larmor
Active Member
I will reiterate this comment, on a daily basis, most people don't drive alot per day, may be 100 miles. Do we really think the vast majority of people (vast majority does not equal southern california) drive even more than 100 miles per day?
larmor
Active Member
The car was designed to perform better on safety tests and crash tests. This engineering constraint limits the internal size. Clearly the MS nad MX could have been very big on the inside but at the expense of less well designed structural members.
larmor
Active Member
Yesterday I went into GM dealership. Dealer words: "We dont have Bolt on display neither you can testdrive it. Ordering is available, with January delivery." Does not look like they have overstock issues with Bolt.
Big-T
Member
It's going to be really interesting to see what Tesla looks like in 2019 - once the most die hard folks have gotten their orders AND full production is up at 500,000 cars per year. Will there be enough demand for a $40k-$60k car to meet these production goals? Currently the BMW 3 series is not even manufacturing 500,000 cars per year, and USA Sales make up 100,000 - 140,000 of that. (numbers at the bottom of the page)
So we're saying that the model 3 is going to replace and surpass the BMW 3 series sales? That's a tall order, especially without tax credits.
Despite the vocal camp here that thinks they hit it out of the park, there's another just as vocal camp outside these forums that doesn't agree. More to the point, I think many can agree that BMW is the reigning King for a reason, it's a solid car that's fun to drive. It's not like the rest of the ISE world (again outside of these forums) is clamoring for a replacement. You have to convince them to make the change somehow.
So we're saying that the model 3 is going to replace and surpass the BMW 3 series sales? That's a tall order, especially without tax credits.
Despite the vocal camp here that thinks they hit it out of the park, there's another just as vocal camp outside these forums that doesn't agree. More to the point, I think many can agree that BMW is the reigning King for a reason, it's a solid car that's fun to drive. It's not like the rest of the ISE world (again outside of these forums) is clamoring for a replacement. You have to convince them to make the change somehow.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The latest rumors are around 40kWh and 150 miles EPA range for the 2018 Leaf. They might have another larger pack coming later.
uuuh, ex-fanboy here. after taking yesterday to largely refrain from posting and think about it a lot, I'm still seeing the base Model 3 as not being competitive with a loaded Civic. Yeah the EV-ICE part is not comparable, but looking at the overall package, it just makes better short-term sense for someone not obsessed with EVs or performance driving to throw $25k+ at a loaded Civic or Accord than settle for a bare bones $35k Model 3, especially if the bulk of full tax credits are taken by high-end 3 buyers.
Model 3 should've been sold as a smaller, less equipped, $50k version of the Model S with cheaper, even less amazing versions eventually available instead of a $35k mass market car. This isn't a mass market car, it's an expensive toy that probably won't make a meaningful impact on the real mass market of Toyota/Honda/Subaru drivers. That's the group that needs to be sold on EVs for any meaningful transition away from ICE to occur.
Model 3 should've been sold as a smaller, less equipped, $50k version of the Model S with cheaper, even less amazing versions eventually available instead of a $35k mass market car. This isn't a mass market car, it's an expensive toy that probably won't make a meaningful impact on the real mass market of Toyota/Honda/Subaru drivers. That's the group that needs to be sold on EVs for any meaningful transition away from ICE to occur.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Not too worried about it. The 500k per year is just a target. Tesla doesn't really have to hit it to do well.
It's like the worry about the Model S when it first launched.
One reason is because Audi has more models to choose from in which they sold over 200,0000 cars in the US. How many Tesla's were sold.
Also these post are concerning the features that come standard and how the M3 killed all other brands
So you value design, but don't want to pay for it or think a good design aesthetic should be free.....
Got it
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
We get these comparisons from time to time, but they don't make sense considering how Tesla had been presenting the Model 3 all along. It was always aimed at the 3 series/A4. It was never aimed at the economy market.
In general, you can always get a loaded economy car for a lot less than an entry level premium car.
EVs that try to compete with loaded economy ICE cars tend to fall flat on their face in terms of sales (see the Bolt) as it's not possible to hide the long range battery costs with such a low price (and people in general are not willing to pay a large battery premium). So counter-intuitively, using the strategy you suggest actually leads to lower EV sales and a less meaningful transition away from ICE.
Tesla's strategy actually ensures the car is competitive in its segment (the equipment levels are similar with entry level premium cars). It will still result in around ~300k-500k sales per year (that's how much the 3 series sells; many people underestimate its sales). That's moving as fast as Tesla can expand already.
Yeah, but I just don't see Tesla accelerating a move to sustainable transport with it's cars yet. They've started the conversation, but the movement conintues to limp along. Actually, perhaps Elon's goal really is to get manufacturers with the production wherewithal to go EV, which is happening sloooowly. Eh, at the end of the day, I'm ashamed to admit that I had high hopes for this car - probably exacerbated by me buying rumors that never came to fruition - that have been dashed by the actual details revealed last Friday.
Model 3 was supposed to be a game changer, but is really just another expensive toy. After 15+ months of me evangelizing Tesla and the Model 3, a few co-workers have already stopped by my office to take pleasure in throwing this in my face this morning.
jelloslug
Active Member
All I see is a bunch of misinformed people making poor deductions.
jelloslug
Active Member
Had a Audi A4 for a loaner it was a fun car to drive. Audi's virtual cockpit is awesome !!
modamoda
Member
IMO. it only affects people those who are living in countries with well organized EV infrastructures.
(parking space with EV changer, reasonable Supercharger locations)
