Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[JulienW]

It's difficult to own and maintain a software-defined automobile if it does not have good connectivity. Tesla could offer a Premium+ connectivity option that provides timely software updates via the car's cellular modem. This would make it much easier for apartment/condo dwellers who must park outside of wifi range.

As someone who has never had WiFi available and pays for Premium connectivity I couldn't agree more.......but that is not the reality.

Original FSD Beta 10.2 to the time it was opened to non Safety Score people we did get all updates over LTE. I did get spoiled for that year or so.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Tesla will eventually send over LTE but has a lot of time (many months after you get the letter) since a recall is based on "old school" scheduling and servicing at the service center for all cars one at a time. Also you say you are saving hours by not updating????? How do you calculate this? I don't have WiFi and live in a high rise (26 floors above my car) and must go down, move my car and connect my iPhone. It takes me <10 minutes to go down move car, connect to iPhone and go back up. Then <10 minutes to repeat the process and hit install. So in my extreme case it takes less than 20 minutes for an update.

What do you do that takes hours?

In my case 10 minutes down and move car. Connect hotspot, start download, lock car with keycard, back upstairs is 10 minutes. Then at some point in the future, I go back downstairs and get my phone back and move car back. Another 10 minutes. So minimum 30 minutes plus, on average 20 - 30 minutes for the actual download.

This has to be done when my husband is home or able to call our landline so I can find out when the update is downloaded.

Then 20 - 40 minutes for the install. Then reboot time.

ONLY THEN can the car be moved back to the underground garage (a precaution in case something goes wrong and the car is bricked since towing from the underground garage is nigh impossible.

So I'm up to over 90 minutes.


This doesn't include learning times for each new update. And updating the settings in the car. Add 30 minutes for that.

Times 3 (so far.)

Oh, and I don't have Mint. Or live in the United States. I live in a country where data is far more expensive and coverage is not guaranteed and so I've picked 5GB per month as my data plan, so don't use my phone for streaming music, I use the premium connectivity instead.

As you point out, most updates I could do at home especially if it was at the end of the month and I'd know I wouldn't have overages. I just don't know WHICH updates I have enough data to download because tesla refuses to release the size of the update.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's difficult to own and maintain a software-defined automobile if it does not have good connectivity. Tesla could offer a Premium+ connectivity option that provides timely software updates via the car's cellular modem. This would make it much easier for apartment/condo dwellers who must park outside of wifi range.

It's not really an issue. Anybody who _really_ wants the updates should be able to buy extra data for their cellphone or a hotspot cheaper than having a subscription.

Otherwise, if there's a recall they will ultimately _have_ to send it over LTE or ask the owner to bring the car in for service and provide all the legally required support. The recall is _Tesla's_ problem, not the owner's.

 

[Kevy Baby]

The recall is _Tesla's_ problem, not the owner's.

But as soon as someone has to bring their car in to Tesla to get the update for any recall requiring a visit to the service center, it IS the owner's problem. Not sure about others, but my time is one my most valued resources.

 

[JulienW]

But as soon as someone has to bring their car in to Tesla to get the update for any recall requiring a visit to the service center, it IS the owner's problem. Not sure about others, but my time is one my most valued resources.

You do understand that 99% of all recalls happen this way and it is where the term recall comes from.

 

[Supcom]

It's not really an issue. Anybody who _really_ wants the updates should be able to buy extra data for their cellphone or a hotspot cheaper than having a subscription.

Otherwise, if there's a recall they will ultimately _have_ to send it over LTE or ask the owner to bring the car in for service and provide all the legally required support. The recall is _Tesla's_ problem, not the owner's.

As @SidetrackedSue stated above, it's not just about the data plan. There's a significant inconvenience due to the process. If the car would download over cellular, it could get updates while it was in use outside of a parking garage with no extra effort required from the owner.

Given that the Premium subscription can provide you with many, many gigabytes of data per year from audio and video access, it would seem that providing software downloads to cars would be a minimal increase in data costs for Tesla. But, if it is, a small increase in subscription for those who need it would surely be a popular item.

 

[Kevy Baby]

You do understand that 99% of all recalls happen this way and it is where the term recall comes from.

Obviously. I was responding to @ItsNotAboutTheMoney's comment of "it's not the owner's [problem]". As soon as the owner has to take the car in: it IS the owner's problem

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

But as soon as someone has to bring their car in to Tesla to get the update for any recall requiring a visit to the service center, it IS the owner's problem. Not sure about others, but my time is one my most valued resources.

It also would cost Tesla more to have employees handle it. So Tesla will ultimately push it over cellular. They'll just wait as long as possible.

 

[JB47394]

It also would cost Tesla more to have employees handle it. So Tesla will ultimately push it over cellular. They'll just wait as long as possible.

Tesla won't push it over cellular. They aren't obliged to force the recall work. It's up to the owner to arrange it, and they do it via the terms set by the company. So if your Toyota has a seatbelt recall, it's up to you to take it in to a Toyota dealer. If Tesla has a software recall, it's up to you to do whatever Tesla says to get the recall work completed. I'm sure there are legal precedents about "reasonable effort" or some such thing, and visiting the nearest place with free WiFi doesn't seem onerous.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

So if your Toyota has a seatbelt recall, it's up to you to take it in to a Toyota dealer. If Tesla has a software recall, it's up to you to do whatever Tesla says to get the recall work completed.

Agreed. But any recall I went to a dealer for was resolved and that was it. Not to mention, recall visits to dealers were combined with regular maintenance visits so there wasn't an extra visit to the dealer involved. For the December tesla recall, there were recalls of the recall updates.

For those who have wifi at their parking spots (and a way of towing the car, just in case), I fully understand OTA recalls are no-brainers and a game-changer to car manufacturers to reduce their costs. But for me, they are not much different than a classic recall; they require a time investment from me.

I don't mind updating for safety reasons and would have done so immediately if it was truly a safety issue. This wasn't given the way I use AP (as the manual tells me to, i.e. on highway only and not hands-free) and my FSDb already has the attention checking which has never resulted in a strike although since the V11.4.7.3 my husband is now getting the defeat device detected warning when the highway is straight for long distances (I'm too fidgety to be misinterpreted as a defeat device.)

Given I find the icons tesla used clearer than the mandated ones, I'm in no rush to make the change there either but, again, not really a safety matter. If my car is reacting to a 'condition' that causes a light to come on you can bet I'm not looking at the effin screen but working to pull my car over to a safe place to stop and then it doesn't matter how clear the damn icons are, I can lean over and look at them. If the icon comes one while I'm driving but doesn't affect the car, then I'll miss it entirely because there is no display within the line of sight of my eyes and I drive looking ahead, not scanning the screen for changes on it (which is a bitch since even if there is a chime warning and message the message doesn't stay on the screen long enough for me to read it.) If the icon comes on and stays on when the car is 'started' then I'm already stopped and can take the time to study the screen. We are a one car family so there is no confusion about icons in one car vs another.

I will update (I've never refused to just like I never refused a recall from Toyota) but I will do so when I'm forced to by an unrelated service call, a tesla download over LTE, or when I'm confident the update won't be a waste of my time. Unlike many of the refuseniks here, I didn't have to do anything to avoid the downloads from happening so my life continues as it did before December, except that I'm paying closer attention to TMC to try and figure out which will be the 'only' update I'll need to spend the time to download. It might be the current offer, but I thought that about the last one and not making the time to update meant that I now am offered one update for the 2 recalls.

I also recognize I'll likely have to do two updates, one for the recall and holiday crap (which I don't care about) and then another to V12 (which I do want) because, IIRC, that was required of me when I finally moved up to the UI feature of adjustable screen fonts. I had to 'catch up' with a prior update that updated FSDb and wait days before the update I actually wanted was finally offered to me. Still, 2 updates is a helluva lot better than two plus three or more which is what would have happened if I had jumped at the updates as soon as the offer appeared.

 

[bwillie]

I this going to affect older Teslas? I hve a 2016 Model S, no cabin camera obviously. Autopilot works great. No stupid cabin camera to monitor your every move. Still only have to worry about pressure on steering wheel and it is still VERY easy to feel right away when the car is confused and needs immediate driver input.

Should I turn any updates off or not let Tesla take possession of my vehicle for any repair? I honestly was going to buy a 2024 Model Y because they sent me an email saying if I do so they would transfer my free supercharging but when I test drove the Model Y I was absolutely floored with how bad the Autopilot was....compared to my EIGHT YEAR old Tesla. Hilarious it has gotten that much worse. I'm not sure why you would even use the "new" autopilot. Awful nags all the time.

 

[fholbert]

I this going to affect older Teslas? I hve a 2016 Model S, no cabin camera obviously. Autopilot works great. No stupid cabin camera to monitor your every move. Still only have to worry about pressure on steering wheel and it is still VERY easy to feel right away when the car is confused and needs immediate driver input.

Should I turn any updates off or not let Tesla take possession of my vehicle for any repair? I honestly was going to buy a 2024 Model Y because they sent me an email saying if I do so they would transfer my free supercharging but when I test drove the Model Y I was absolutely floored with how bad the Autopilot was....compared to my EIGHT YEAR old Tesla. Hilarious it has gotten that much worse. I'm not sure why you would even use the "new" autopilot. Awful nags all the time.

The updates were pushed in December, you should have already received them.

 

[KArnold]

honestly was going to buy a 2024 Model Y because they sent me an email saying if I do so they would transfer my free supercharging but when I test drove the Model Y I was absolutely floored with how bad the Autopilot was....compared to my EIGHT YEAR old Tesla.

Mirrors my experience on my '17.

 

[hybridbear]

I this going to affect older Teslas? I hve a 2016 Model S, no cabin camera obviously. Autopilot works great. No stupid cabin camera to monitor your every move. Still only have to worry about pressure on steering wheel and it is still VERY easy to feel right away when the car is confused and needs immediate driver input.

Should I turn any updates off or not let Tesla take possession of my vehicle for any repair? I honestly was going to buy a 2024 Model Y because they sent me an email saying if I do so they would transfer my free supercharging but when I test drove the Model Y I was absolutely floored with how bad the Autopilot was....compared to my EIGHT YEAR old Tesla. Hilarious it has gotten that much worse. I'm not sure why you would even use the "new" autopilot. Awful nags all the time.

You can transfer both FUSC & FSD to a new Y. We did that & bought a new Model Y Long Range. FSD Beta is WAY better in the Y than it was in the S. FSD Beta is much less jerky in the Y. Idk if it’s the HW4 cameras or something else, but it’s much better comparing 11.4.9 on both cars. And the cabin camera seems to nag less as long as you’re looking at the road. If you are trying to use your phone or spend lots of time looking down at the screen then the cabin camera will trigger a nag. But if you’re looking at the road our experience is that nags are significantly reduced.

 

[primedive]

The "remedy" actually eliminated the icons for Park, Brake warning and ABS warning. Now, those indicators consist only of text lettering with no international/universal icon symbol. Because the area devoted to the entire symbol wasn't big enough to accommodate both the icon and the text title, without making the text very small.

IMO, the core problem of too-small and too-subtle indicators in the UI has not actually been remedied by this compliance change.

Thanks to @willow_hiller for posting this useful comparison:
View attachment 1014743

I just got this update and imo it’s a big step back in legibility. The old icons were clear and easy to see at a glance. Now there’s just a word that I have to look closer to see what it’s actually saying, since the screen isn’t that bright at night and red on black isn’t the easiest to read.

Who on earth thought that this was an improvement?

BTW I’m in Canada and still got the update with words only.

 

[zoomer0056]

Now there’s just a word that I have to look closer to see what it’s actually saying

Really, it's still a picture bug with words.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I just got this update and imo it’s a big step back in legibility. The old icons were clear and easy to see at a glance. Now there’s just a word that I have to look closer to see what it’s actually saying, since the screen isn’t that bright at night and red on black isn’t the easiest to read.

Who on earth thought that this was an improvement?

BTW I’m in Canada and still got the update with words only.

Well the previous implementation didn't meet the law, regardless if it is actually easier to see.

 

[MXing]

Mirrors my experience on my '17.

Same here - Test drove Y twice due to the free supercharger switch offer and it was a major let down. Sticking with MX17.

 

[TPA23MYLR]

I want my money back! 2023 MY threatening to permanently disable autosteer? WTF? Are you kidding? I don't live in Red China last I checked. What is this "recall" that has messed my car up? I want my money back and I'll go buy a car that doesn't torture me. The autosteer is so poor anyway when there's an on ramp it yanks you to what it thinks is the middle of the road but isn't. And then it is now refusing to help me when things are controllable, but I was "bad" a few times. Are you kidding me right now?! And I WASNT bad! WTF?! Give me my money back you a$$holes. The blind spot warning does not even work EITHER! just a red car, no audible notice. You A$$holes! I want my money back! I'll NEVER BUY ANOTHER TESLA. YOU JERKS!

 

[Tronguy]

I want my money back! 2023 MY threatening to permanently disable autosteer? WTF? Are you kidding? I don't live in Red China last I checked. What is this "recall" that has messed my car up? I want my money back and I'll go buy a car that doesn't torture me. The autosteer is so poor anyway when there's an on ramp it yanks you to what it thinks is the middle of the road but isn't. And then it is now refusing to help me when things are controllable, but I was "bad" a few times. Are you kidding me right now?! And I WASNT bad! WTF?! Give me my money back you a$$holes. The blind spot warning does not even work EITHER! just a red car, no audible notice. You A$$holes! I want my money back! I'll NEVER BUY ANOTHER TESLA. YOU JERKS!

So, the obvious:

NHTSA says that the Autopilot/ADAS with the car isn't the kind that lets the car run without supervision. That means eyes on the road, or at least off cell phones/screens/random kids in the back seat/and very definitely not playing video games and such while driving.

In addition, Tesla's implemented a torque requirement that means, pretty much, at least one hand on the wheel. So, no GM/Ford playing patty cake while driving.

The idea: You're monitoring what the car's doing. NHTSA requires Tesla to detect people doing idiotic things in a car that's not rated for robotaxi.

It's not like any of this is a big surprise. The "accept this" buttons that had to be pressed in order to use the ADAS tools were pretty blamed explicit about it all. Further, it's not like, "take your eyes off the road and 0.2 s later you get a strike". It's a lot more like, "Take your eyes off the road for 2+ seconds, then get blue flashes and all telling you to pay attention." A little wiggling of the steering wheel and/or looking out the blame windshield clears the issue. Immediately.

I've been driving FSD-b and EAP for years now and have never really had a problem keeping the driver monitoring software from freaking out. Out of curiosity, what, exactly, were you doing when the strike warnings popped up?

As far as the Red China reference goes: It's Not About You. You go to an uninhabited city with no other cars around, and nobody cares if you slam into a tree, run a red light, run a stop sign, or handle an unprotected left incorrectly. However, society in the heavy arm of the NHTSA has this.. thing.. about Not Killing Other People. The NHTSA wants you to Pay Attention when driving a Beta-version ADAS system, the better so that when it inevitably makes a mistake, you and that car of yours doesn't kill a family of five.

Finally: Act badly enough, get five strikes, and you lose the ADAS. For, I think, two weeks. In which case you can drive the car without the fancy stuff around for a bit while you think about how you got there.

And if you honestly can't think of anything you were doing that got you those five strikes and think that all those strikes were completely unjustified.. maybe you should just sell the car and go buy something else that's not as fancy, since a Tesla would clearly not be for you.