Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[Mengy]

Release notes for the "recall" from this post:


No mention of requiring the camera to be uncovered...

Looks like a nothing burger. (Just bringing standard Autosteer up to current with what Tesla has done to FSDb with nags/lockout, and the addition of more visible notices and strictness around traffic controls, which isn't really necessary in FSDb.)

Yep the changes NHTSA requested are pretty mild honestly. No big deal, like most of us suspected.

 

[sublimejackman]

Recalls are for defective software too, not just physical parts, when it pertains to public safety and will become all the more important if cars move further and further in the direction of OTA updates and being computers on wheels.

This whole process ties into the legal realm along with the antiquated snail mail notices that people seem to also be complaining about. If this process wasn't followed for defective software, you'll end up with more cases in courts where people say they never received this OTA update or weren't contacted yadda yadda so the regulators or Tesla should share the responsibility for damages / injuries / fatalities.

Much of this is driven by action in courts, this NHTSA investigation is a result of all the Autopilot lawsuits etc and the recall process is there to resolve them and front-run future legal action.

And this again will become important if, for example, someone dodges the recall update by cutting connectivity on the car and then gets into an accident with damages/injuries they want someone else to be accountable for -- this stuff actually happens.

Yep. That and Tesla was well aware of all of this for over two years. In Sept 2021, they coulda just sent this update and the NHTSA wouldn't have needed to conclude a recall was required. Like the NHTSA doesn't want to issue recalls, they asked Tesla over and over again to just voluntarily send this update out for years.

Regardless of the mechanism of remdiation, all safety issues require a recall. If it's "just an OTA update" then why didn't Tesla just do it two years ago?

(spoilers: cause they fake it until they make it and they haven't made it to proper non-beta FSD yet, so... recall)

 

[AndrewZ]

Yeah the focus on the terminology is amusing and seems to mostly be rooted in the idea that it has some impact on the stock market.

It is a recall, the recall process exists for a reason when dealing with public safety and things that likely already led to legal action, and that process needs to be followed right down to mailing physical letters to addresses on file because then nobody has a basis for going into court and suing the NHTSA/NTSB/Tesla claiming they never received a fix for an identified safety issue that they claim led to some terrible event.



The best way to avoid having the dreaded "recall" moniker slapped on your product is to not ship defective products, and that moniker is part of what holds manufacturers accountable and creates incentive to do things right the first time.

 

[sublimejackman]

Behind every disgruntled user I see someone who didn't do the homework. It sounded fantastical when Elon promised FSD by the end of the year (every year going back a few years) - so I never believed it. I bought FSD to enjoy the regular updates and be able to experience it as it got better (or worse !).

As I've posted numerous times here - it is a great ADAS feature for people who have spent the time to understand its limitations and are ready to monitor and takeover when needed. Its invaluable for me at night, when raining. Othertimes its a great, relaxing drive.

This. This is the baffling response. Honestly, if your happy with it, great.

It's not FSD anymore it's FSDb. It's not level 4/5, it's level 2. That was always the plan, 6 years later to have a beta level 2 software that costs $12,000 or $200 a month. This is literal gas lighting.

 

[EVNow]

This. This is the baffling response. Honestly, if your happy with it, great.

Dude - you are the one claiming FSD is useless for 99% of the drives. Prove it or take it back.

It's not FSD anymore it's FSDb. It's not level 4/5, it's level 2. That was always the plan, 6 years later to have a beta level 2 software that costs $12,000 or $200 a month. This is literal gas lighting.

Its not been 12k for 6 years

 

[MP3Mike]

In Sept 2021, they coulda just sent this update and the NHTSA wouldn't have needed to conclude a recall was required. Like the NHTSA doesn't want to issue recalls, they asked Tesla over and over again to just voluntarily send this update out for years.

It still would have had to be called a recall in September of 2021...

 

[sublimejackman]

Dude - you are the one claiming FSD is useless for 99% of the drives. Prove it or take it back.

99% of DRIVERS, not drives. 99% of humans do not want to pay $12,000 to babysit FSD(b).

Its not been 12k for 6 years

I paid $2k for it 2017, still waiting on the ROI

 

[sublimejackman]

It still would have had to be called a recall in September of 2021...

nah... in 2018 when Tesla first added the really annoying nags, that was in response to that guy watching a DVD player and went under a truck. They corrected the radar reliance issue and added new nags without a recall.

 

[EVNow]

99% of DRIVERS, not drives. 99% of humans do not want to pay $12,000 to babysit FSD(b).

Ofcourse. 99% of humans don't buy Teslas either - so they are all obvously useless. 99% of people don't get PHDs - so they are all useless. etc etc

Any other words of wisdom you want to share ?

ps : In 2000, they said the same thing about HDTVs and about EVs in 2010 ! And just about every new tech. If you are not a nerdy, early adopter - FSD beta is not for you.

 

[sublimejackman]

Ofcourse. 99% of humans don't buy Teslas either - so they are all obvously useless. 99% of people don't get PHDs - so they are all useless. etc etc

Any other words of wisdom you want to share ?

I thought we were talking about the brand here. Wouldn't we want a large portion of the population want something? Even if they potentially can't adfford it. Like tons of poeple (probably more than 1%) would love to have a BMW or an Audi. Brands that convey quality and performance.

Again, my point is that everytime Tesla lies, spins, gaslights, obfuscates, fails to deliver on time, etc... the brand suffers more and more. 99% of people do not want FSD(b), not becuase its unobtainable. It's because it doesn't do what it claims to do with the name and offers them nothing but babysitting duty.

 

[Supcom]

Dude - you are the one claiming FSD is useless for 99% of the drives. Prove it or take it back.

Actually, I believe he stated that it was useless to 99% of drivers, not drives. I expect he is just being egocentric and means that FSD is not useful to him.

 

[Supcom]

I thought we were talking about the brand here. Wouldn't we want a large portion of the population want something? Even if they potentially can't adfford it. Like tons of poeple (probably more than 1%) would love to have a BMW or an Audi. Brands that convey quality and performance.

Again, my point is that everytime Tesla lies, spins, gaslights, obfuscates, fails to deliver on time, etc... the brand suffers more and more. 99% of people do not want FSD(b), not becuase its unobtainable. It's because it doesn't do what it claims to do with the name and offers them nothing but babysitting duty.

Maybe the cost has something to do with it.

 

[Dewg]

I'm gonna throw out my thoughts on this - and it's likely going to be unpopular:

All this is you people's faults. If everyone read the manuals, read the disclaimers and warnings on screen, and drove the car the way it was meant to be driven, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Because of idiot humans who decided to hell with the warnings, to hell with the specs, and to hell with whatever the manual tells them, and used AP where it was not supposed to be used and not how it was intended to be used, we have this safety feature war that we have today. Morons.

You must use AP on divided highways / freeways, with your hands on the wheel, paying full attention. But no - they'll use it on undivided highways, country roads, city streets, etc. Must have your hands on the wheel. But no - they'll crawl in the back seat for a laugh. Must keep your eyes on the road. But no - I'll play with my phone or take a nap.

So regulators step in and start the war. Tesla has to put in wheel nags to make sure you're holding the wheel. But no - they'll use wheel weights to circumvent the safety system. So Telsa has to put in changes to detect wheel weights, which isn't 100% accurate and causes some people who are legitimately holding the wheel to get dinged. Tesla had to enable the cabin camera to make sure their eyes are on the road and not glued to their cell phone because they can't survive without seeing some social media update from their favorite celeb every 2 minutes. But no - they'll try anthropomorphic dummies in the driver seat to fool the system into thinking they're driving.

You did this to yourselves. This is your fault. Blame yourselves. You're adults, but apparently can't follow directions or do what you're told. So whine all you want - poor you. But you'll get no sympathy from me.

 

[zroger73]

Its not been 12k for 6 years

Tesla still shows it to be $12,000 just as it has been since September.

 

[TK211X]

Where is the reset language. Is it still going to be one week.

 

[fholbert]

I'm gonna throw out my thoughts on this - and it's likely going to be unpopular:

All this is you people's faults. If everyone read the manuals, read the disclaimers and warnings on screen, and drove the car the way it was meant to be driven, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Because of idiot humans who decided to hell with the warnings, to hell with the specs, and to hell with whatever the manual tells them, and used AP where it was not supposed to be used and not how it was intended to be used, we have this safety feature war that we have today. Morons.

You must use AP on divided highways / freeways, with your hands on the wheel, paying full attention. But no - they'll use it on undivided highways, country roads, city streets, etc. Must have your hands on the wheel. But no - they'll crawl in the back seat for a laugh. Must keep your eyes on the road. But no - I'll play with my phone or take a nap.

So regulators step in and start the war. Tesla has to put in wheel nags to make sure you're holding the wheel. But no - they'll use wheel weights to circumvent the safety system. So Telsa has to put in changes to detect wheel weights, which isn't 100% accurate and causes some people who are legitimately holding the wheel to get dinged. Tesla had to enable the cabin camera to make sure their eyes are on the road and not glued to their cell phone because they can't survive without seeing some social media update from their favorite celeb every 2 minutes. But no - they'll try anthropomorphic dummies in the driver seat to fool the system into thinking they're driving.

You did this to yourselves. This is your fault. Blame yourselves. You're adults, but apparently can't follow directions or do what you're told. So whine all you want - poor you. But you'll get no sympathy from me.

Sorry, I can only like this once!

 

[AndrewZ]

I'm gonna throw out my thoughts on this - and it's likely going to be unpopular:

All this is you people's faults. If everyone read the manuals, read the disclaimers and warnings on screen, and drove the car the way it was meant to be driven, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Because of idiot humans who decided to hell with the warnings, to hell with the specs, and to hell with whatever the manual tells them, and used AP where it was not supposed to be used and not how it was intended to be used, we have this safety feature war that we have today. Morons.

You must use AP on divided highways / freeways, with your hands on the wheel, paying full attention. But no - they'll use it on undivided highways, country roads, city streets, etc. Must have your hands on the wheel. But no - they'll crawl in the back seat for a laugh. Must keep your eyes on the road. But no - I'll play with my phone or take a nap.

So regulators step in and start the war. Tesla has to put in wheel nags to make sure you're holding the wheel. But no - they'll use wheel weights to circumvent the safety system. So Telsa has to put in changes to detect wheel weights, which isn't 100% accurate and causes some people who are legitimately holding the wheel to get dinged. Tesla had to enable the cabin camera to make sure their eyes are on the road and not glued to their cell phone because they can't survive without seeing some social media update from their favorite celeb every 2 minutes. But no - they'll try anthropomorphic dummies in the driver seat to fool the system into thinking they're driving.

You did this to yourselves. This is your fault. Blame yourselves. You're adults, but apparently can't follow directions or do what you're told. So whine all you want - poor you. But you'll get no sympathy from me.

Regulators are there effectively to ensure public safety amidst stupidity, and control legal fallout where those meet!

 

[kabin]

I'm gonna throw out my thoughts on this - and it's likely going to be unpopular:

All this is you people's faults. If everyone read the manuals, read the disclaimers and warnings on screen, and drove the car the way it was meant to be driven, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Because of idiot humans who decided to hell with the warnings, to hell with the specs, and to hell with whatever the manual tells them, and used AP where it was not supposed to be used and not how it was intended to be used, we have this safety feature war that we have today. Morons.

You must use AP on divided highways / freeways, with your hands on the wheel, paying full attention. But no - they'll use it on undivided highways, country roads, city streets, etc. Must have your hands on the wheel. But no - they'll crawl in the back seat for a laugh. Must keep your eyes on the road. But no - I'll play with my phone or take a nap.

So regulators step in and start the war. Tesla has to put in wheel nags to make sure you're holding the wheel. But no - they'll use wheel weights to circumvent the safety system. So Telsa has to put in changes to detect wheel weights, which isn't 100% accurate and causes some people who are legitimately holding the wheel to get dinged. Tesla had to enable the cabin camera to make sure their eyes are on the road and not glued to their cell phone because they can't survive without seeing some social media update from their favorite celeb every 2 minutes. But no - they'll try anthropomorphic dummies in the driver seat to fool the system into thinking they're driving.

You did this to yourselves. This is your fault. Blame yourselves. You're adults, but apparently can't follow directions or do what you're told. So whine all you want - poor you. But you'll get no sympathy from me.

No doubt there's plenty of blame to go around. But in the end it's all about safety and protecting not just the idiot FSD purchaser but everyone on the roadways. As usual, TSLA needs to step up their game.

 

[FordMME]

What is the point of BlueCruise when it doesn't have near the capabilities of FSD and you still have to monitor it? (It does only cost ~40% as much as FSD, at least until they decide to raise the price again.)

That’s a good question. I initially scoffed at the idea of BlueCruise because “so what - they want me to pay so I can put my hands in my lap instead of on the wheel?!”

Then I started using BC (version 1.0) and it changed my mind. Being able to just sit comfortably with my hands in my lap as opposed to stretched out to control the wheel, on a 2-3 hour drive, is MUCH more relaxing. And the eye sensor works remarkably well. I’m pretty critical of Ford but damn, I’m seriously impressed by the accuracy of the eye sensor. No false hits - if I’m looking at the road I don’t get nagged. If I look down even slightly to the infotainment screen for more than 5 seconds, it knows.

I would never pay $800/yr for this, but because I bought a 2021, I’m still on a free trial and at the end of this year I can do a one time renewal for a three year term at $600 total. Hell yes, I’ll do that. And within the next month or so I should be upgraded to version 1.3, which includes the (not) “automatic” lane changes but is also supposed to be even more accurate.

I have difficulty with the viewpoint of “if you’re not willing to keep your hands on the wheel, you shouldn’t be using FSD.” What? Granted, I haven’t tried it, but how is keeping a hand on the wheel while it turns for you relaxing? That just seems weird.

 

[SO16]

Thanks. That is my point. People think "recall" means taking your car in for service. That is why I think news service need to mention that this is an OTA "recall", not a physical recall.

Yup. Met with a guy today to ask me how far I have to go to bring in my car due to the “recall”. I said it updates over the air like your smartphone. He had no idea.