Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[fholbert]

Started driving mostly on the left lanes and let the speedsters go. The drives became relaxing and more enjoyable...

So, you’re that guy?

 

[Chewy13]

I used to worry about this, then about 20 years ago I went to pick up an antique car in Burbank and drove it back to Tucson. An older friend who came with me gave me good advice, just stay to the right, relax and let the traffic flow around you. I realized this actually wasn't too stressful once I stopped worrying about it. I wasn't going dangerously slow, just at or a bit below the speed limit.

OTOH, you might get more forgiveness and less aggressive interaction for being in an obviously limited vehicle, compared to being in a shiny new Tesla.

Oh for sure, and that's exactly what I did whenever possible.
Going from the corner(ish) of MA to the corner of CT at 95% SOC, I would arrive at my parents in the 20 degree weather with an estimated 15% SOC, which ended up being 7% SOC when I pulled into the driveway.

The challenge with trying to relax in the right lane in this part of the country, is that not every exit/interchange is on the right lane, constantly monitoring on-ramp traffic that "merges" on too slowly, or on/off ramps that don't have dashed lines - so autopilot makes it appear as if the driver is drunk by trying to lane center abruptly.

I tried holding 2-3 MPH over PSL, but still found myself being lit up by tractor trailers, so I just kept to the right lane whenever possible - which led me to be extra attentive than relaxed when making the 3 hour drive.

 

[wdolson]

I guess people in South Dakota are much better behaved than those Massachusetts. I had to go under (OMG THE HUMANITY!!!!) their speed limit (it is obvious some people don't understand the meaning of this word but it isn't the same as 'suggestion') on the interstate because the cross winds were too much for my hybrid car to hold the road easily at higher speeds. All the other traffic just pulled around me and back in front of me. No one hogged the left lane, perhaps that's why no one tail gaited me because they were able to go around me.

All in all, it was a lovely drive because my cruise control maintained my speed, no phantom braking, no random lane changes, no having to constantly be watching for alerts on a screen, and even though I didn't have autosteer (or any ADA except basic cruise) the car held its lane nicely and I could enjoy the amazing scenery along the route.

Note: there are speed minimums on the interstate and I was going 35 mph over that. I just wasn't traveling at the speed limit.

I have to wonder how many people being slammed with disengagement warnings are driving too fast for the conditions and so the computer is constantly making sure they are not distracted and can take over if a heavy gust of wind (for example) is too much for autosteer. I used to get warning on EAP stack and on the FSDb stack, which I assume will be similar to what I get when I finally download and install the latest update. But they are usually not annoying at all. I suspect it is because I go much closer to the speed limit and at or below the speed limit when conditions warrant.

Years ago I observed drivers in cities have two dimensions to their driving styles: aggressiveness and intelligence. For example Los Angeles is aggressive and intelligent. At non-rush hour times (at least when I was a teenager) driving on the freeways in Los Angeles people would be doing 70 bumper to bumper and accidents were rare. Drivers were aggressive but also highly skilled.

When I moved to Seattle I found drivers to be timid and did a lot of stupid things.

I think a lot of it had to do with the road systems. In Los Angeles, you can get everywhere on surface streets if you wanted to take the time. The people who were too scared to do 70 bumper to bumper were on the surface streets. The way the roads are in Seattle, there are places you can't get there from here unless you get on the freeways. And a lot of the freeways only have two lanes. Inexplicably I-5, the main freeway into downtown, goes from 6 lanes south of the city center to 2 lanes in the city center. There are also a few left hand offramps. It's a horrible designed roadway.

A lot of people are on the freeways who would rather not be there and they are doing timid and dangerous things because of it.

When I spent a summer in Milwaukee, WI I also went down to Chicago a number of times. I had a friend there. I found Milwaukee drivers to be aggressive and do stupid things while Chicago drivers were like Los Angeles: aggressive but smart. I saw some crazy things in Milwaukee like people passing people in intersections using the right turn only lane to get around them. It was a nerve wracking place to drive.

I have lived in the Portland, OR area the last 20 years and drivers here are pretty much an average of everywhere else I've been. There is the occasional WTF drivers do, but generally people are fairly good drivers and neither too aggressive nor too timid.

When we were moving here and making a lot of trips on I-5 between the Seattle and Portland area we would note when someone did something crazy on the road around us, they usually had a license plate frame from a Seattle area dealer.

Exactly this.

Looong time back I used to drive aggressively - trying to keep up etc. One day got pulled over for speeding - realized I was being foolish. Started driving mostly on the left lanes and let the speedsters go. The drives became relaxing and more enjoyable...

Of course all this before EVs ...

Driving slower in the left lane is illegal in Washington and California. Though in the Seattle area you often have no choice on the 2 lane freeways when there is a lot of traffic entering and exiting.

 

[fholbert]

For example Los Angeles is aggressive and intelligent. At non-rush hour times (at least when I was a teenager) driving on the freeways in Los Angeles people would be doing 70 bumper to bumper and accidents were rare. Drivers were aggressive but also highly skilled.

That‘s not really true, more like 80mph bumper to bumper.

We call it drafting. Where do you think NASCAR learned it?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Driving slower in the left lane is illegal in Washington and California. Though in the Seattle area you often have no choice on the 2 lane freeways when there is a lot of traffic entering and exiting.

In California it is legal to drive slower in left lane, you just need to move over for quicker traffic. In other states, slower traffic can't drive on left lane at all, and that lane is a passing-only lane.

I think the logic behind left lane camping (especially for two lane roads) is the people in a hurry can swerve around cars, while those that are not in a hurry will just stay in their current lane (some people in a hurry do this anyways, they weave in traffic, even if the car is willing to move over, because they don't have the patience to wait for the lane change to complete).

The problem with sticking with right lane (in a two lane road), is the trucks are there and there's lots of traffic moving and out, which a moderate speed car actually is more of a danger for merging cars. When there are three or more lanes, this becomes less of a concern.

But given the traffic convention is generally left lane is the passing lane, passing on right becomes more dangerous.

 

[wdolson]

That‘s not really true, more like 80mph bumper to bumper.

We call it drafting. Where do you think NASCAR learned it?

I haven't lived in Los Angeles since 1984. When I left the national top speed limit was 55 mph. So it was 70 then.

In California it is legal to drive slower in left lane, you just need to move over for quicker traffic. In other states, slower traffic can't drive on left lane at all, and that lane is a passing-only lane.

I think the logic behind left lane camping (especially for two lane roads) is the people in a hurry can swerve around cars, while those that are not in a hurry will just stay in their current lane (some people in a hurry do this anyways, they weave in traffic, even if the car is willing to move over, because they don't have the patience to wait for the lane change to complete).

The problem with sticking with right lane (in a two lane road), is the trucks are there and there's lots of traffic moving and out, which a moderate speed car actually is more of a danger for merging cars. When there are three or more lanes, this becomes less of a concern.

But given the traffic convention is generally left lane is the passing lane, passing on right becomes more dangerous.

I stand corrected. The laws are similar but a little different between Washington and California. RCW 46.61.100 makes left lane camping illegal in Washington.

 

[SudokuJW]

Any more updates on rather or not the “recall” stinks? I’ve been reading the back and forth and it is getting mixed reviews.

I have a non camera MS 2017 FSD computer with MCU 3 and am waiting to see if I should download and install .6, or hold off until the dust settles.

any regrets on the install?

 

[hybridbear]

Any more updates on rather or not the “recall” stinks? I’ve been reading the back and forth and it is getting mixed reviews.

I have a non camera MS 2017 FSD computer with MCU 3 and am waiting to see if I should download and install .6, or hold off until the dust settles.

any regrets on the install?

I've been waiting for similar reports, but since our cars without the cabin camera are a small minority there is very little feedback for us.

 

[Supcom]

I've been waiting for similar reports, but since our cars without the cabin camera are a small minority there is very little feedback for us.

You and @SudokuJW should flip a virtual coin for the honor of going first.

 

[EVNow]

Driving slower in the left lane is illegal in Washington and California. Though in the Seattle area you often have no choice on the 2 lane freeways when there is a lot of traffic entering and exiting.

Mistyped- meant right lanes. Leave the left ones for those who are going at great speeds to do nothing in particular…

 

[zoomer0056]

Mistyped- meant right lanes. Leave the left ones for those who are going at great speeds to do nothing in particular…

We figured that out.

 

[KArnold]

any regrets on the install?

My '17 MS100 has 2023.30.45.6. Minimal impact to FSDb; more so for FSD. I have no regrets as I use FSDb almost exclusively.

Be aware the update has bricked FSD/FSDb on several cars of many years. Not sure they have an answer to that yet - several threads on that here. I may have gotten lucky as its working. If it were me in retrospect I would have waited.

 

[AWDtsla]

Any more updates on rather or not the “recall” stinks? I’ve been reading the back and forth and it is getting mixed reviews.

I have a non camera MS 2017 FSD computer with MCU 3 and am waiting to see if I should download and install .6, or hold off until the dust settles.

any regrets on the install?

I regret it. Basically beeps with red hands and mutes your music ~4 seconds after engaging. To avoid it you have to tug on the wheel with constant force so that when the timer elapses it detects torque at that instant, there are no averages or second chances. I tried many combinations of things over a few dozen trials. Rarely I've seen it be as low as 2 seconds and as high as 13 seconds, not sure why that was happening.

This algorithm is stupid and annoying.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I regret it. Basically beeps with red hands and mutes your music ~4 seconds after engaging. To avoid it you have to tug on the wheel with constant force so that when the timer elapses it detects torque at that instant, there are no averages or second chances. I tried many combinations of things over a few dozen trials. Rarely I've seen it be as low as 2 seconds and as high as 13 seconds, not sure why that was happening.

This algorithm is stupid and annoying.

I also find that since the update, the system wants steering wheel torque immediately upon engagement - but for me this is mainly a problem at night, when I guess the camera is less sure of what it's seeing. (Even though I think I have the IR-equipped camera based on the look of the in-app Live Camera cabin image at night).
I don't notice this problem when engaging FSD during the day.

I think it's worth reiterating that this particular regime, requiring increased proof-of-attention, was imposed by NHTSA over Tesla's objection. Both parties decided to accept this compromise in the interests of resolving the issue and moving on. This isn't my opinion; the language of the recall notice stated as much.

It is, however, my opinion that NHTSA leadership felt they had to impose something rather than nothing, at the end of their much-publicized investigation. I don't claim that Tesla autopilot has no shortcomings in terms of normal proper usage nor especially in terms of idiot proofing - but I think there's a pattern where Tesla improves the system (in the deployed fleet) faster then the traditional investigation/remedy process can play out.

 

[fholbert]

I’m not a Tesla die hard, I see terrible flaws in Tesla and in my opinion, Elon is a dip s8it.

I drove 198 miles today after the .30.5.1 update, Ontario to Santa Paula and back, lots of LA traffic. I saw nothing but improvement.

• Didn’t get any rain so I can’t comment on the wipers.
• Seeing stop signs and traffic lights on the Tesla NAV was great. Thought it would be too much on the display, but it wasn’t.
• Adding red in the camera shot when signaling for a lane change was wonderful. Made a lane change much quicker.
• I found resting one hand on the bottom of the steering wheel was all it took to make the system happy. No need to tug on the wheel. Those who think the system should be hands off just don’t get it.
• Didn’t see any phantom braking, but with only 200 miles it’s too soon to say.

 

[AWDtsla]

I think it's worth reiterating that this particular regime, requiring increased proof-of-attention, was imposed by NHTSA over Tesla's objection. Both parties decided to accept this compromise in the interests of resolving the issue and moving on. This isn't my opinion; the language of the recall notice stated as much.

It is, however, my opinion that NHTSA leadership felt they had to impose something rather than nothing, at the end of their much-publicized investigation. I don't claim that Tesla autopilot has no shortcomings in terms of normal proper usage nor especially in terms of idiot proofing - but I think there's a pattern where Tesla improves the system (in the deployed fleet) faster then the traditional investigation/remedy process can play out.

Quoting my friend today "I don't want to use autopilot because I might get a strike". Freakonomics of NHTSA impositions.

Just have to wait for people to die during periods of decreased autopilot usage.

 

[Knightshade]

Main value of the recent updates to me seems to be in the updated maps, several places that were just plain wrong (and made the car try to drive wrong, dangerously in at least one case) are now fixed with the newer maps that have the intersection designs and lanes correct.

It does still dive into the wrong lane once in a while, but at least it's not trying to turn left at an intersection that hasn't offered the ability to do so in at least 2 or 3 years.

Below is the intersection--- you can ONLY turn right here-- In red up to the yellow circle is the path the car takes before/after map updates... before the update at the yellow circle it'd slow down a bunch, pause, then start to follow the further-up red path into oncoming traffic thinking somehow it could turn left there- since clearly it couldn't otherwise and I'd have to jerk the wheel to stop it.

Now it doesn't change behavior at all at the yellow circle and just continues along the black path to make the right.

Sadly it seems still unable to execute the U-turn the nav then tells me to take slightly further down the road but baby steps I guess

The nags seem either the same or less to me (2018 Model 3 with HW3 and interior cam) so long as my head is pointing at the road.

But I did also have it do dry wipes on the auto wipers for the first time in months, that was the only "bad" change I noticed.

 

[ph0ton]

FYI: If anyone is holding off on updating and accidentally connected to WiFi, if you go into service mode to "software reinstall" it will clear the downloaded update. Obviously do so at your own risk yada yada and you can't undo anything you already installed; only clear what you haven't yet.

 

[boonedocks]

Re-subscribed to the FSD B for a month, already cancelled the auto-renewal. FSD B still dives in to the right exit only lanes (not my exit or turn just a right lane for people to slow down in to turn in to their neighborhood / church / as it has since first available. I have to disengage and report every time I go past the two same places it has done since day one of FSD B (I was using FSD B after the very first go round of TeslaTesting LOL)

 

[dbldwn02]

Re-subscribed to the FSD B for a month, already cancelled there auto-renewal. FSD B still dives in to the right exit only lanes (not my exit or turn just a right lane for people to slow down in to turn in to their neighborhood / church / as it has since first available. I have to disengage and report every time I go past the two same places it has done since day one of FSD B (I was using FSD B after the very first go round of TeslaTesting LOL)

This is the thing that drives me bonkers, the most. I'm still on FSD 10.something. Every left turn or right turn lane is "faster" than the lane I'm in. Sometimes, when no-one is around, I let it figure out what it did wrong, for a little laugh. Not gonna "learn" if I have to save you every time. /s