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Tesla sales continue downwards trend in Europe

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And according to BBC, SpaceX spent around 2 billion on Starship in 2023 while Nasa spacesuits look to be 1 billion EACH.

This is the same for Tesla - any of Elon Musk's companies have a 10-20 to 1 advantage in development cost efficiency.
It is more than that.... I am guessing that everyone here is the same age as me (well at least I hope so)....and we thought that Thunderbirds was our future....and only one person thinks we should have cars that silently glide pass and rockets that land on their feet
 
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So if Musk supported the other main political party that would be fine?
No. That’s clearly not what I said at all.

For the absolute avoidance of doubt, the whole reason public figures, particularly leaders of mega corporations don’t weigh in on contentious issues with I’ll considered drunken Twitter posts is so they don’t alienate a not insignificant proportion of their customer base.

Unfortunately Musk has absolutely turned public perception against him and almost all of it was his own doing thanks to his egotistical outbursts. There are just far too many examples for ‘normal people’ (the mass market) to ignore.
 
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Mod comment:

There’s a place for politics (and I put my hand up to posting, although great damage would be done to the public’s faith in TMC if a moderator can be convicted over such a trivial matter) and it’s not here.

I think there’s also an area for SpaceX
 
This pretty much says it all. I guess in your view anyone who agrees with Musk is not normal. Okay.
No.

If your not willing to discuss how Musks behaviour is potentially impacting the willingness of ‘normal people’ as in people who are not Tesla enthusiasts (aka the mass market car buying public (as I clearly stated in good faith, your not worth engaging with.

I’m more disappointed if anything else, frankly I expect a better standard of discussion on these boards.
 
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If people get their news solely from MSM or sound bites, they tend to have a more negative view than if they actually take the time to understand what Elon means and what he’s been through to come to his conclusions. Does he get everything right? Heck no. (No one does.). And he is wired different than the “normal” person. But overall, he’s still a net positive. And that is what has allowed him to accomplish as much as he has. So this says more about our terrible media and human “need” to gravitate to negative nonsense than anything else.
 
I’ve been in Italy for nearly a week and today I spotted only my second Tesla.

Certainly no market penetration here at all. I’ve seen more Twizys. Large sprawling city area and various other towns.

I’m sure someone will come along and try and blame it on Italian or European influences/back handed marketing, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped the Japanese or Korean manufacturers having a reasonable presence.
 
I’ve been in Italy for nearly a week and today I spotted only my second Tesla.

Certainly no market penetration here at all. I’ve seen more Twizys. Large sprawling city area and various other towns.

I’m sure someone will come along and try and blame it on Italian or European influences/back handed marketing, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped the Japanese or Korean manufacturers having a reasonable presence.
My own memory of Italian road population is of smaller, cheaper vehicles than large American barges such as the 3/Y, electric or not.
 
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Don’t tell me you know this only now and going by your 500 posts here I am sure you are aware of this much earlier.

I don’t know what you know about Model 3 when it all started, Tesla consciously made a decision to keep the manufacturing and prices as low as possible to gain maximum profits by lowering production costs. Even DTC in the current form is part of that disruptive model. Every bit of legacy car manufacturing process was questioned and either a newer/cheaper (as you prefer) or technologically advance solutions(Tesla vision) or cost cutting approach (again depending on your views) was chosen. All these plastic clips etc., were part of this model instead of stronger pins the Germans use or the gummy tapes Model S had :). The choice was to use the tape vs clips and obviously clips took fewer minutes to pin all the wires compared to tapes. Elon went with that. I am sure not many knew about this when they bought their Tesla in 2019 but since then repeat customers are more aware of these rattles etc., But people buy Tesla not because they are solid like German marquees but because of the drive train, battery tech, software sophistication, their simplistic design, SC networks and OTA updates and so on.

Have you checked the recent volvo x30, Velar and BMW 1 series (ICE) - their simplistic design layout mirrors early Model 3. But look at their price for what they offer - the Velar base model costs 54K - that doesn’t even have adaptive cruise control. And imagine if that car comes with the standard 60w battery for 250miles - it will cost around 70K. Not many can buy and compare that with the Highland that cost 39,990.
Your absolutely right I haven't recently discovered the cheap build quality, the penny pinching, the absolute dishonesty of Tesla and the promises of fixing things "soon" that just never get fixed - and if you look back at some of my posts over a year ago I said I wouldn't buy another Tesla again, and it isn't because I'm unhappy with my car - its a great car - I'm not knocking the car for the sake of it.
My comments were specifically aimed at the cost of a new Highland M3P - to have one in the spec of my car, coupled with the knowledge of just how the cars are assembled - Knowledge I didn't have when i made my purchase.

If you go into the boot - look upwards at the roof of it - unpainted and uninsulated, Lift the boot carpets out and take a look either side in the space underneath the rear light clusters - The metalwork has a few tack welds, no sealant and you can see the road below the car. Take a front wheel arch liner out - the steel beam that forms the A to C post is a rectangle piece of steel - with an open end - so road noise travels through it - Inside the car your right ear is within inches of it - surely blocking the end off would reduce noise more than laminated windows. And take the front tub out - none of the metalwork is painted - it just looks so cheaply put together. The flitch plates - the metalwork panel inside the the front door shuts close to the door hinges - its as flimsy as cardboard, and has holes formed in it, no grommets - so another area for increased noise inside the car. NVH has been a focus in car production for years - but not with Tesla, but on purchase I had assumed it would be as that is the norm..

Manufacturing does indeed move on and ways of doing things may not fit into my idea or sensibilities of what's decent - and that's where choice comes in.

The 3 performance specifically - The BYD seal is more traditional but a direct competitor and the Ionic 5N - this looks to be wiping the floor with the Model 3 performance.
One more thing to add - new Highland performance for the UK is different to that in the USA, smaller battery - 79Kwhrs and its not as quick due to limitations of the max amperage delivered to the motors.

Funnily enough, The Velar - I sourced a 2023 Velar HSE Dynamic R Diesel for my daughter just 6 months ago and that all looks to be fine - no evidence of substandard assembly - though I haven't taken anything to bits off it yet, but you cant compare price wise a RR Velar against a model 3 performance - so I'm missing your point.
 
Funnily enough, The Velar - I sourced a 2023 Velar HSE Dynamic R Diesel for my daughter just 6 months ago and that all looks to be fine
You are a very lucky man. I will never again purchase anything JLR. My stepson worked on the assembly lines for several years and you honestly don’t want to know what goes on. Now works for Aston Martin, so don’t buy one of those either 😂