Tesla Supercharger network

[Cosmacelf]

What if Govt mandated that LG and Samsung put card readers on their TVs so that there is seamless and frictionless experience for people buying movies from Netflix or Amazon

What is this “Internet” thing of which you speak…

Government, turning efficient to inefficient.

 

[Earl]

What if Govt mandated that LG and Samsung put card readers on their TVs so that there is seamless and frictionless experience for people buying movies from Netflix or Amazon

I did not share whether i think that is good or not but there are differences. The California law pertains to chargers subsidized by the state and chargers are public, while TVs tend to be privately owned.
There's no requirement for privately owned home charging stations (EVSEs) to have any sort of billing mechanism.
Personally, I think they should take cash ("good for all debts public or private" and completely private and untraceable) but I'm quite sure that idea would be overruled.

 

[miimura]

What happened to the requirements set forth by the California Division of Measurement Standards??? The Division has stated that NIST Handbook 44 Section 3.40 shall be enforced. There is a significant date there - All New DCFC installed after January 31, 2023 must comply.

The basic premise of this regulation is that any AC EVSE or DC EVSE that charges a fee for delivering "vehicle fuel" shall comply with measurement standards.
These standard include things like:

S. Specifications
S.1. Primary Indicating and Recording Elements. S.1.1. Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE). – An EVSE used to charge electric vehicles shall be of the computing type and shall indicate the electrical energy, the unit price, and the total price of each transaction.
(a) EVSEs capable of applying multiple unit prices over the course of a single transaction shall also be capable of indicating the start and stop time, the total quantity of energy delivered, the unit price, and the total price for the quantity of energy delivered during each discrete phase corresponding to one of the multiple unit prices.
(b) EVSEs capable of applying additional fees for time-based and other services shall also be capable of indicating the total time measured; the unit price(s) for the additional time-based service(s); the total computed price(s) for the time measured; and the total transaction price, including the total price for the energy and all additional fees.
S.1.2. EVSE Indicating Elements. – An EVSE used to charge electric vehicles shall include an indicating element that accumulates continuously and displays, for a minimum of 15 seconds at the activation by the user and at the start and end of the transaction, the correct measurement results relative to quantity and total price. Indications shall be clear, definite, accurate, and easily read under normal conditions of operation of the device. All indications and representations of electricity sold shall be clearly identified and separate from other timebased fees indicated by an EVSE that is used for both the sale of electricity as vehicle fuel and the sale of other separate time-based services (e.g., vehicle parking).
S.1.2.1. Multiple EVSEs Associated with a Single Indicating Element. – A system with a single indicating element for two or more EVSEs shall be provided with means to display information from the individual EVSE(s) selected or displayed, and shall be provided with an automatic means to indicate clearly and definitely which EVSE is associated with the displayed information.

S.1.3. EVSE Units.
S.1.3.1. EVSE Units of Measurement. – EVSE units used to charge electric vehicles shall be indicated and recorded in kilowatt-hours (kWh) and decimal subdivisions thereof.​

S.2.4. EVSE Indication of Unit Price and Equipment Capacity and Type of Voltage. S.2.4.1. Unit Price. – An EVSE shall be able to indicate on each face the unit price at which the EVSE is set to compute or to dispense at any point in time during a transaction.
S.2.4.2. Equipment Capacity and Type of Voltage. – An EVSE shall be able to conspicuously indicate on each face the maximum rate of energy transfer (i.e., maximum power) and the type of current associated with each unit price offered (e.g., 7 kW AC, 25 kW DC, etc.).
S.2.4.3. Selection of Unit Price. – When electrical energy is offered for sale at more than one unit price through an EVSE, the selection of the unit price shall be made prior to delivery through a deliberate action of the purchaser to select the unit price for the fuel delivery. Except when the conditions for variable price structure have been approved by the customer prior to the sale, a system shall not permit a change to the unit price during delivery of electrical energy. Note: When electrical energy is offered at more than one unit price, selection of the unit price may be through the deliberate action of the purchaser: 1) using controls on the EVSE; 2) through the purchaser’s use of personal or vehiclemounted electronic equipment communicating with the system; or 3) verbal instructions by the customer.
S.2.4.4. Agreement Between Indications. – All quantity, unit price, and total price indications within a measuring system shall agree for each transaction.

It is also noteworthy that the load test tolerance (billing accuracy) requirement of 1% Acceptance Tolerance and 2% Maintenance Tolerance for DCFC has been postponed to January 1, 2028.

I was thinking that these regulations would force Tesla to put displays on their new Supercharger stations. At least ChargePoint was making a point of saying that such things are required, especially since their hardware was already in compliance.

https://www.chargepoint.com/about/news/chargepoint-receives-cdfa-division-measurement-standards-type-approval-publicly

 

[CSFTN]

ReddyLeaf, I don't understand why you say an older S can't go 500+ miles in a day. I drove over 1500 miles in 2 days in my 2012 MS P90. Max charge rate is ~150KW. The first day we drove 16 hours. The second day we drove 14 hours. See the trip route on the map.

Do you have a battery replacement? The max charging rate a 2012 should accept is 90 kW (I believe). Sometime in 2013 it was increased (officially) to 120, which might actually mean 150 on the new chargers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I did not share whether i think that is good or not but there are differences. The California law pertains to chargers subsidized by the state and chargers are public, while TVs tend to be privately owned.
There's no requirement for privately owned home charging stations (EVSEs) to have any sort of billing mechanism.
Personally, I think they should take cash ("good for all debts public or private" and completely private and untraceable) but I'm quite sure that idea would be overruled.

No, the bill being introduced would apply to all public chargers, not just ones funded by the state. The legislator is in particular looking to target Tesla stations. The ones funded by the state already have their own requirements determined by the state application process. It's been reported Tesla already withdrew their application for those. If the bill being introduced only covers state funded stations, I don't think people would care as it wouldn't change anything practically.

 

[dgodfrey]

This credit card reader requirement rule seems quite arcane and a step backwards. I am using my CC only on the legacy big box stores like Walmart and HD that do do not accept Apple pay.

Every other online purchase is through the merchants website or phone app with a CC stored in my account with the merchant.

Isn't the SpC already using a credit card reader? I know my SpC bill is paid via CC.

 

[dgodfrey]

Could California become the first state to require Tesla charging stations to open to all EVs?

By Dustin Gardiner, San Francisco Chronicle - March 2


[TL;DR] A bill in the California Congress is designed to force all new EV chargers built in the state to include CCS and Credit Card Readers. A Marc Geller of Plug In America gets to rebut

When should we expect EA, EVgo, and Chargepoint to install their TeslaDock? /s

Now, a California legislator is attempting to solve the problem by forcing Tesla and other station operators to open their networks to all drivers. Assembly Member Jesse Gabriel has unveiled a bill that would require new public stations to be accessible to all drivers and have universal connecting ports.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Now, a California legislator is attempting to solve the problem by forcing Tesla and other station operators to open their networks to all drivers. Assembly Member Jesse Gabriel has unveiled a bill that would require new public stations to be accessible to all drivers and have universal connecting ports.

So all chargers have to provide NACS (Tesla), CCS, and CHADEMO?

 

[israndy]

There are Fiats and Nissans and Mitsubishis (and others) out there that have NONE of those connectors on them

 

[MP3Mike]

What happened to the requirements set forth by the California Division of Measurement Standards??? The Division has stated that NIST Handbook 44 Section 3.40 shall be enforced. There is a significant date there - All New DCFC installed after January 31, 2023 must comply.

I think the portion that requires a display got delayed:

All DC EVSE are exempt from this requirement until January 1, 2028

 

[Earl]

No, the bill being introduced would apply to all public chargers, not just ones funded by the state.

Yes. This kind of government overreach (even if it doesn't actually go through) is why so many will elect to put situations like Trump into power.
The current California law only applied to how California tax money was spent. It did not reach into private enterprise what was not hurting anyone.

 

[Earl]

Isn't the SpC already using a credit card reader? I know my SpC bill is paid via CC.

The SpC transaction is not at the point of sale as the current law requires.

 

[Earl]

There are Fiats and Nissans and Mitsubishis (and others) out there that have NONE of those connectors on them

The EV1, Rav4EV, and our Tesla Roadster don't (and didn't) either - and none of this would be happening if they hadn't shown that EVs are possible.
Typical punishment of the good deeds.

 

[Bugeater]

Do you have a battery replacement? The max charging rate a 2012 should accept is 90 kW (I believe). Sometime in 2013 it was increased (officially) to 120, which might actually mean 150 on the new chargers.

Yes. I was one of the lucky ones! The original 85KWh battery was replaced at 7 years and 11 months! I'm not certain right now if the max charge rate is still 120 or 150. It is definitely not 90 any more...

 

[Electroman]

Yes. I was one of the lucky ones! The original 85KWh battery was replaced at 7 years and 11 months! I'm not certain right now if the max charge rate is still 120 or 150. It is definitely not 90 any more...

You have one of those early 8 years unlimited battery warranty? And they honored it?

 

[Bugeater]

You have one of those early 8 years unlimited battery warranty? And they honored it?

Yes! Very lucky!!!

 

[dhanson865]

Come to Crossville, TN and take up as many spaces as you like.

Crossville, TN has two supercharger locations one with 8 stalls and one with 16 and on average there are 0 cars at one and 1 or 2 cars at the other.

The 8 spaces are V2, the 16 spaces are V3.

You could block all 8 spaces at the V2 and never see a Tesla owner complain.

They could convert some or all of those and have 0 impact on existing Tesla customers and still be providing more than enough chargers for CCS users.

Like you could probably come in there and park sideways for an hour or two and not inconvenience anyone no matter which connector type you need (assuming it's not a holiday weekend).

 

[threeputts]

Come to Crossville, TN and take up as many spaces as you like.

Crossville, TN has two supercharger locations one with 8 stalls and one with 16 and on average there are 0 cars at one and 1 or 2 cars at the other.

The 8 spaces are V2, the 16 spaces are V3.

Well dang now I need to find an excuse to take a road trip just to check this place out. I haven't been to Smoky Mountains National Park yet...

 

[Electroman]

Interesting that both of them are just 500 feet away on ether side of the freeway on the same exit. Like McDonalds and Burger King.

 

[dhanson865]

Interesting that both of them are just 500 feet away on ether side of the freeway on the same exit. Like McDonalds and Burger King.

View attachment 914718

I was wrong the 8 stalls are not V2.

The north one is V3 8 stalls at a local winery and has been there since 2021. Sweets and Alcohol but no real food or convenience options.

The south one is V3 16 stalls at a Bucees that just opened in late 2022. Like the superchargers just went live in Feb 2023. I probably don't need to tell anyone what Bucees has.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-crossville-tn-buc-ees.272109/page-3

It'll be a very very long time before these to locations are needing expansion considering it's a small town rural location and there are superchargers the next towns over in Cookeville and Knoxville.