Tesla Supercharger network

[Cottonwood]

Cotton, is $150K for an entire site a reasonable number, regardless of whether it's a 4-banger or a 20-charger location? I know they don't have to pay for the real estate, but it still seems quite a low amount.

That $150k number has bounced around the rumor mill, but it is plausible for the average Supercharger Site.

This post gives a 19th October official date for availability to owners:

Tesla Supercharger network - Page 82

Thanks for the link.

I will then take availability to the public on October 19, 2012 as the start date for Supercharging.

 

[gigglehertz]

How close to the end of the year does Tesla update their future maps? I'm looking forward to possibly getting a glimpse at 2017 and also possible expansion into new countries like Mexico and India, and apparently the middle east which was a suprise in a recent Elon tweet.

 

[emupilot]

How close to the end of the year does Tesla update their future maps? I'm looking forward to possibly getting a glimpse at 2017 and also possible expansion into new countries like Mexico and India, and apparently the middle east which was a suprise in a recent Elon tweet.

They released their 2016 map on January 8th 2015. The 2017 map will be pretty much just for fun as it will correlate poorly with reality, but at least it will show what Tesla aspires to do.

 

[dhanson865]

They released their 2016 map on January 8th 2015. The 2017 map will be pretty much just for fun as it will correlate poorly with reality, but at least it will show what Tesla aspires to do.

I still say they should do them in 4 month or 6 month increments and have no more than 16-18 months ahead depicted on a map.

This business of having a coming soon map and a 2015 map both up at the end of 2015 just looks bad. Have someone update the coming soon map every 3 or 4 months as needed. Make sure the next map has a title that is no less than 4 to 6 months away. If that title is less than 3 months away kill that map and move that information to the coming soon map.

If the reason is that information on the 2015 end map won't happen before Jan 2016 then rename the end of 2015 map to call it Spring 2016 or First Half 2016 and then rename the 2016 map to Fall 2016 or Second Half 2016.

Don't bother with a 2017 map until you can get around to updating the coming soon and next two periods more often or worst case make a 2017 map no earlier than June 2016.

 

[smartypnz]

Posters at SFO offering Charging "while you travel".

Sure - park at a charger while you go away for 3 weeks. You will be very popular.

 

[TexasEV]

Posters at SFO offering Charging "while you travel".

Sure - park at a charger while you go away for 3 weeks. You will be very popular.

If it's in a long term parking lot or garage, why not? That's what they're there for. A bank of 120V outlets each on its own circuit would be a lot less expensive for the airport to install and would be just as useful, but no one makes money selling that as ChargePoint, etc. does selling its overpriced charging stations, and the airports don't know any better.

 

[wdolson]

I took a look at that video. The announcement happened on September 24, 2012. I got the Nov 19, 2012 date from Supercharge.Info. When were the first California Superchargers publicly available? Was it right after 11/24/2012 or sometime later.

250 North America Supercharger Sites and 550 worldwide in about 3 years is pretty amazing.

At $150k per Supercharger Site, that is a capital investment of $37.5m in North America and $82.5m worldwide. Those are big numbers, but at $100k per Model S, that is the equivalent of 375 and 825 cars; in perspective, not such a big percentage.

Looking at it another way, if there are around 120,000 Model Ss sold, that's about $690 per car sold. I've read the estimated profit per car is around $20,000, though I'm sure that varies depending on the version. The Ludicrous upgrade for the P90D is probably all profit and they probably scrape by on the S70.

In any case, $690 a car capital investment in charging infrastructure isn't bad when they are making $20K a car. They still need to pay electricity bills (which I've heard are a drop in the bucket compared to other expenses) and all the other capital improvements.

 

[Drucifer]

Looking at it another way, if there are around 120,000 Model Ss sold, that's about $690 per car sold. I've read the estimated profit per car is around $20,000, though I'm sure that varies depending on the version. The Ludicrous upgrade for the P90D is probably all profit and they probably scrape by on the S70.

In any case, $690 a car capital investment in charging infrastructure isn't bad when they are making $20K a car. They still need to pay electricity bills (which I've heard are a drop in the bucket compared to other expenses) and all the other capital improvements.

I think $150k is low side, but given they sold supercharger access for $2k, then they did well on that option since the cost is only probably $1k on average including the electricity consumed over the life of the typical Model S.

 

[Cottonwood]

A lot of gap Superchargers, or as I call them "bronze spikes," have been opened recently! It very nice to see these route completed.

• Amarilo, TX - Today - Filling the gap on I-40, heading west from Oklahoma
• Burlington, VT - Yesterday - Filling the gap between Montreal and Boston
• Denton, TX - Yesterday - Filling the gap on I-35, heading north out of Texas
• Twin Falls, ID - 10/28 - Filling the gap on I-84, Seattle to Salt Lake

Greenville, SC; Kingsland, GA; Plantation, GA; and Colorado Springs, CO are on deck, but the I-10 still has two gaps that need filling, Slidell, LA and something between Houston, TX and Lake Charles, LA. Other than a little activity on I-81, we are not seeing much in the way of new routes being started recently.

 

[bollar]

A lot of gap Superchargers, or as I call them "bronze spikes," have been opened recently! It very nice to see these route completed.

• Amarilo, TX - Today - Filling the gap on I-40, heading west from Oklahoma
• Burlington, VT - Yesterday - Filling the gap between Montreal and Boston
• Denton, TX - Yesterday - Filling the gap on I-35, heading north out of Texas
• Twin Falls, ID - 10/28 - Filling the gap on I-84, Seattle to Salt Lake

Greenville, SC; Kingsland, GA; Plantation, GA; and Colorado Springs, CO are on deck, but the I-10 still has two gaps that need filling, Slidell, LA and something between Houston, TX and Lake Charles, LA. Other than a little activity on I-81, we are not seeing much in the way of new routes being started recently.

IMO, Denton deserves more than a bronze spike. After all, it's the SC that officially opens the Texas Island for 60s.

 

[TexasEV]

I think $150k is low side, but given they sold supercharger access for $2k, then they did well on that option since the cost is only probably $1k on average including the electricity consumed over the life of the typical Model S.

No. This has been explained many times. Tesla did not sell supercharger access for $2000. When supercharging option was announced for 60s it was described as the cost of the DC charging hardware and software IN THE CAR. The supercharger operation is marketing expense.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

A lot of gap Superchargers, or as I call them "bronze spikes," have been opened recently! It very nice to see these route completed.

• Amarilo, TX - Today - Filling the gap on I-40, heading west from Oklahoma
• Burlington, VT - Yesterday - Filling the gap between Montreal and Boston
• Denton, TX - Yesterday - Filling the gap on I-35, heading north out of Texas
• Twin Falls, ID - 10/28 - Filling the gap on I-84, Seattle to Salt Lake

Greenville, SC; Kingsland, GA; Plantation, GA; and Colorado Springs, CO are on deck, but the I-10 still has two gaps that need filling, Slidell, LA and something between Houston, TX and Lake Charles, LA. Other than a little activity on I-81, we are not seeing much in the way of new routes being started recently.

Well, there's Catoosa, OK which begins dedicated I-44 activity, and it looks like Tesla might be trying to fill in Eastern I-40 as it does I-81.

I recommend that people take a look at Supercharge.info* and uncheck Permit and Construction. With the opening of those gap Superchargers, the Open-only map looks much better than it did. Those others you list will help even more.

By my very simplified reckoning, defining "covered" as
- max gaps of 100-miles in the cold North
- max gaps of 125 miles in the South or milder NW
- (where those classification are how I decide it, damn it)
and including the Permit+ status Superchargers on Supercharge.info* as already done, Tesla needs no more than 215 more sites on Interstates fully to cover the lower 48 non-spur Interstates. The number could be lower if they can site some Superchargers at Interstate intersections. Needs** more analysis to get a better idea.

* The Awesome Supercharge.info to give it its full title.
** Needs as in "doesn't need, but I want to do it/know it anyway".

 

[ZBB]

but the I-10 still has two gaps that need filling, Slidell, LA and something between Houston, TX and Lake Charles, LA.

Um… I-10 has a rather large gap between Casa Grande, AZ and San Marcos, TX…

 

[Bet TSLA]

Tesla needs no more than 215 more sites on Interstates fully to cover the lower 48 non-spur Interstates. The number could be lower if they can site some Superchargers at Interstate intersections.

Sounds about right. It looks to me like they are aiming to reach that point at about the time the first Model 3 is delivered. However, I think that growth will be somewhat uneven. They seem to want to have California reach its final state early, presumably so they can collect data on traffic and charging behavior patterns so they can optimize provisioning in the rest of the world. They'll also get better data on where the knee in the curve is for buying their cars, if indeed greater supercharger convenience does encourage more people to buy their cars (of course it does).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Um… I-10 has a rather large gap between Casa Grande, AZ and San Marcos, TX…

Well, San Marcos is on I-35, Columbus is the next one on I-10.

Anyway... he's writing particularly about "bronze spikes", where just 1 Supercharger where 1 would make an "uncomfortable" gap comfortably traversable and complete coverage of that section of Interstate.

Yes, Casa Grande, AZ to Columbus, TX is 1054 miles so by my "125 in the South" rule needs 8 Superchargers between them.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds about right. It looks to me like they are aiming to reach that point at about the time the first Model 3 is delivered. However, I think that growth will be somewhat uneven. They seem to want to have California reach its final state early, presumably so they can collect data on traffic and charging behavior patterns so they can optimize provisioning in the rest of the world. They'll also get better data on where the knee in the curve is for buying their cars, if indeed greater supercharger convenience does encourage more people to buy their cars (of course it does).

I think CA is about keeping up with demand. Lots of their sales in CA, so they're now more about getting people to vacation destinations.

(Grumble, I live in Vactionland, and we have no Superchargers, grumble, grumble.)

 

[KJD]

How about filling the I-15 gap from Tremonton, UT up to Butte MT. I would only take a couple locations to make a north south route usable. Connecting i-80 and I-90 seems like a good thing to do.

Maybe around Idaho Falls and Dillion MT would be nice. From I-15 it would be easy to get to Jackson or to West Yellowstone.

 

[smartypnz]

If it's in a long term parking lot or garage, why not? That's what they're there for. A bank of 120V outlets each on its own circuit would be a lot less expensive for the airport to install and would be just as useful, but no one makes money selling that as ChargePoint, etc. does selling its overpriced charging stations, and the airports don't know any better.

Till you arrive at the parking lot and they are all occupied. The chargers on the poster looked L2ish - non brand name.

 

[ModelX]

I am with KJD, would love if they would fill the I-15 gap between Tremonton, UT and Butte, MT

 

[Kevin Harney]

Well, there's Catoosa, OK which begins dedicated I-44 activity, ....

Something in the neighborhoods of Joplin, Mansfield and Rolla should complete that connection nicely.

 

[TexasEV]

Um… I-10 has a rather large gap between Casa Grande, AZ and San Marcos, TX…

We're obviously talking about the part of I-10 that is build out, from central Texas to the east coast.