Tesla Supercharger network

[wdolson]

how can they afford to pay all this electricity ?
I belive they monthly electricity bill is gigantic.
Imagine how big it will be when model 3 comes out !

Electricity rates in the US are cheaper than most of Europe. The average in the US is $0.12/KWh, Germany is $0.35/KWh. That aside, the cost is probably negligible compared to all the other expenses. I would not be surprised if Tesla's electricity bill for the main factory is higher than for all the superchargers in California. Stamping and welding machinery is very electricity intensive.

Tesla's total production at this point is something like 120,000 cars? Maybe less? A fair number of those cars have never used superchargers and the vast majority have only used superchargers a few times. Only a relative handful use superchargers with any regularity.

It may become a more significant bite when there are 1 million on the road, but that will be a few years.

 

[Adm]

Yes they do have to pay. A nice crowded afternoon at Gilroy probably costs Tesla $2/minute. Even the few SCs with solar panels can't keep up with the charging rate of a single MS, let alone 12 of them.
(Note: Those more familiar with electrical rates in California, feel free to make a better estimate.)

Assuming the sun also shines in the morning and there is a battery to store the energy they can use the energy of the sun all day for the rush hours. Also, they can make use of the cheapest time of the day to store energy off the grid if they need more than they can produce themselves. Weather forecasts 24h ahead are good enough to estimate how much energy will be delivered by the solar panels that day.

 

[smartypnz]

Really...that is less than 10%. I-90 is 3,021 miles from Seattle to Boston with less than 284 miles coincident with I-80 (Lake Station, IN to Lorain, OH).

References:

• Interstate 90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Google Maps: Lake Station, IN to Lorain, OH

Ok Cottonwood.... just my opinion.
On another note, I value your notes and respect your comments. Always look forward to your informative posts.

 

[hill]

Back of the napkin - you'd need a 20x20 (400 piece 300watt) array in order to get one tesla supercharged. Even then, you'd need at LEAST 2 more panels to cover losses converting from DC, to AC, then back to the car's DC traction pack ... and even then, because pv optimal power only happens for less than ½ hour during the sun's highest azimuth - so you'll need to pile on a few more panels to compensate for that. I'll say one thing ... you built a setup like that big enough for a dozen Teslas .... you'll have a nice / shady parking lot canopy with all that overhead solar.

.

 

[jerry33]

how can they afford to pay all this electricity ?
I belive they monthly electricity bill is gigantic.
Imagine how big it will be when model 3 comes out !

It comes out of the advertising budget. $2/minute * 225 North American SC is still far less expensive--and likely more effective-- than any TV advertising they could do.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Back of the napkin - you'd need a 20x20 (400 piece 300watt) array in order to get one tesla supercharged. Even then, you'd need at LEAST 2 more panels to cover losses converting from DC, to AC, then back to the car's DC traction pack ... and even then, because pv optimal power only happens for less than ½ hour during the sun's highest azimuth - so you'll need to pile on a few more panels to compensate for that. I'll say one thing ... you built a setup like that big enough for a dozen Teslas .... you'll have a nice / shady parking lot canopy with all that overhead solar.

.

I've thrown this idea out there before but I'll mention it again. What if Tesla built solar garden(s) instead of installing panels at each Supercharger location? This would allow them to generate the most energy possible as they could build the solar garden(s) in regions such as the southwest where they'd get the most bang for the buck. It would also allow for economies of scale, making it a lot cheaper to install the solar gardens in a few locations vs. installing panels in hundreds of (less than optimal) locations.

While the energy generated wouldn't directly power the Superchargers, it would offset the energy used elsewhere in the Supercharger network.

OT: I've researched solar panels and investing in the local solar garden in order to offset my electrical usage. I'm on the wait-list for the solar garden since it is currently sold out. Until panels become available, I'm opting for my local utility's Windsource option. Even though the turbines aren't directly connected to my house, I'm effectively having my electrical usage covered entirely by wind power.

 

[scottf200]

Anyone notice they removed the general location text from the list of superchargers in the past day or so.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/8TMoXuh.png

 

[dhanson865]

double edged sword - the steeper the angle, the lesser sun power will be attainable during the highest azimuth of the day ... unless you live near either of the polar circles.

.

That depends on the season, higher angle helps more in the winter and hurts more in the summer.

 

[TexasEV]

That's disappointing. When driving to a supercharger I haven't been to before it's a lot easier to spot the hotel or restaurant sign from a distance than the superchargers themselves.

 

[KJD]

That's disappointing. When driving to a supercharger I haven't been to before it's a lot easier to spot the hotel or restaurant sign from a distance than the superchargers themselves.

I agree 100%. I wonder what motivated them to do such a stupid thing. Anyone know ?

 

[hill]

Especially with the accuracy of GPS - it really should be a non issue.
.

 

[TexasEV]

Especially with the accuracy of GPS - it really should be a non issue.
.

Maybe it's because I started driving long before GPS and used to keep maps in the glove compartment, but I like to know where I'm going rather than just turning where GPS tells me to.

 

[CHRGIT]

Norfolk is now listed as open on teslamotors website.

 

[1208]

This entire discussion of paying for supercharging is ill-informed. Tesla knows everything: who is using what stall for how long from what state of charge; who is waiting for how long; how far they are from home; where they go when they're done. As problems with crowding occur (and they have and will), Tesla can easily deal with it through a variety of means, none of which involve money. So far they haven't done anything but send out some mostly misdirected letters, but a technical solution is straightforward to implement, so I'm sure they will do that when necessary.

Personally I prefer a system where Tesla simply makes the relevant supercharger not connect to a particular vehicle under some circumstances, after warnings to the driver(s) and invitations to contact Tesla if there's any misunderstanding. They can do this pretty easily, as well as endless variations on this theme.

Agreed!

 

[dgpcolorado]

That depends on the season, higher angle helps more in the winter and hurts more in the summer.

I put in ground mounted panels so I can adjust the pitch angle. I do it 8 times a year, ranging from 15º around the summer solstice to 55º around the winter solstice. The panels are currently at 45º (my latitude is about 38º). I get enough rain and snow that I hardly ever have to wash the panels and it sure is easier to pull snow off of them at 55º than at 35º or 25º, which sometimes happens with spring snow.


While it might be more efficient to use a large array in a sunny place to offset Supercharger energy use, I sure would like to see solar canopies over the charging bays in as many places as practical. Only downside is that the shaded parking might lead to more ICEing!

 

[aronth5]

Anyone concerned that the number of permits in the US has been relatively low the past few months? I wonder if the rate of supercharger installs in Q4 2015 and Q1 2016 will be impacted?
July-2
August-6
Sept-6
October-2

With 3 superchargers going live this week in the US that only leaves 8 permits remaining with 5 of those in California and the other 3 on the east coast. 1 new permit in the last month. Lets hope we see some new permits soon or the supercharger expansion rate in North America is going to take a significant dip. And Canada only has 1 permit.

 

[Cottonwood]

Ok Cottonwood.... just my opinion.
On another note, I value your notes and respect your comments. Always look forward to your informative posts.

Thank you for the compliments. I appreciate them!

I am sorry if I seemed dismissive; just trying to state the facts; I probably could have used a friendlier tone.

I knew that there was an overlap, but until I looked it up, I was shocked at how small the overlap was on a percentage basis.

 

[Benz]

Update including October 17th, 2015:

North America
2012: 0 + 0 + 2 + 7 = 9
2013: 0 + 2 + 11 + 28 = 41
2014: 32 + 16 + 19 + 35 = 102
2015: 42 + 19 + 22 + 4 = 87
Total: 9 + 41 + 102 + 87 = 239

Europe
2013: 0 + 0 + 6 + 8 = 14
2014: 0 + 10 + 44 + 54 = 108
2015: 19 + 19 + 32 + 5 = 75
Total: 14 + 108 + 75 = 197

Asia Pacific (Currently: China, Japan, Australia)
2014: 0 + 3 + 16 + 39 = 58
2015: 15 + 5 + 15 + 0 = 35
Total: 58 + 35 = 93

Global total: 239 + 197 + 93 = 529

2012 Global total: 9 + 0 + 0 = 9
2013 Global total: 41 + 14 + 0 = 55
2014 Global total: 102 + 108 + 58 = 268
2015 Global total so far: 87 + 75 + 35 = 197

Q1 2013 total: 0 + 0 + 0 = 0
Q2 2013 total: 2 + 0 + 0 = 2
Q3 2013 total: 11 + 6 + 0 = 17
Q4 2013 total: 28 + 8 + 0 = 36

Q1 2014 total: 32 + 0 + 0 = 32
Q2 2014 total: 16 + 10 + 3 = 29
Q3 2014 total: 19 + 44 + 16 = 79
Q4 2014 total: 35 + 54 + 39 = 128

H1 2014: 32 + 29 = 61
H2 2014: 79 + 128 = 207

Q1 2015 total: 42 + 19 + 15 = 76
Q2 2015 total: 19 + 19 + 5 = 43
Q3 2015 total: 22 + 32 + 15 = 69 (in 92 days)
Q4 2015 (so far): 4 + 5 + 0 = 9 (in 17 days)

H1 2015: 76 + 43 = 119 (in 181 days)
H2 2015 (so far): 26 + 37 + 15 = 78 (in 109 days)

"197 new live Supercharger stations in 290 days (in 2015). The average is more than 0.6793 per day (in 2015)". That looks like the going average these days. The average in 2014 was 0.7342 (= 268/365). And that still is extraordinary progress, although the average in 2015 (so far) is lower than the average in 2014.

Update including October 26th, 2015:

North America
2012: 0 + 0 + 2 + 7 = 9
2013: 0 + 2 + 11 + 28 = 41
2014: 32 + 16 + 19 + 35 = 102
2015: 42 + 19 + 22 + 9 = 92
Total: 9 + 41 + 102 + 92 = 244

Europe
2013: 0 + 0 + 6 + 8 = 14
2014: 0 + 10 + 44 + 54 = 108
2015: 19 + 19 + 32 + 6 = 76
Total: 14 + 108 + 76 = 198

Asia Pacific (Currently: China, Japan, Australia)
2014: 0 + 3 + 16 + 39 = 58
2015: 15 + 5 + 15 + 7 = 42
Total: 58 + 42 = 100

Global total: 244 + 198 + 100 = 542

2012 Global total: 9 + 0 + 0 = 9
2013 Global total: 41 + 14 + 0 = 55
2014 Global total: 102 + 108 + 58 = 268
2015 Global total so far: 92 + 76 + 42 = 210

Q1 2013 total: 0 + 0 + 0 = 0
Q2 2013 total: 2 + 0 + 0 = 2
Q3 2013 total: 11 + 6 + 0 = 17
Q4 2013 total: 28 + 8 + 0 = 36

Q1 2014 total: 32 + 0 + 0 = 32
Q2 2014 total: 16 + 10 + 3 = 29
Q3 2014 total: 19 + 44 + 16 = 79
Q4 2014 total: 35 + 54 + 39 = 128

H1 2014: 32 + 29 = 61
H2 2014: 79 + 128 = 207

Q1 2015 total: 42 + 19 + 15 = 76
Q2 2015 total: 19 + 19 + 5 = 43
Q3 2015 total: 22 + 32 + 15 = 69 (in 92 days)
Q4 2015 (so far): 9 + 6 + 7 = 22 (in 26 days)

H1 2015: 76 + 43 = 119 (in 181 days)
H2 2015 (so far): 31 + 38 + 22 = 91 (in 118 days)

"210 new live Supercharger stations in 299 days (in 2015). The average is more than 0.7023 per day (in 2015)". That looks like the going average these days. The average in 2014 was 0.7342 (= 268/365). And that still is extraordinary progress, although the average in 2015 (so far) is lower than the average in 2014.

 

[techmaven]

While researching electric vehicle charging infrastructure, I came across a few papers about optimizing infrastructure including this one:

Evaluation of charging infrastructure requirements and operating costs for plug-in electric vehicles
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775313006460

It looked interesting, so I looked up the primary author, Li Zhang. As it turns out, he works for Tesla.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=BSs41cAAAAAJ&hl=en

I thought that was interesting.

 

[scaesare]

Techmaven... it is interesting, thanks.

Of note, it suggests that a 200 mile range BEV can accommodate between 88 and 96% of most peoples driving needs with only 3.3kW charging available. Bodes well for the Model 3.