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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I think the recent price action may partially be related to the U.S. - China escalations as of late. Morgan Stanley issued a note today with the following quote (emphasis added):

With the backdrop of escalating Sino-US tensions in recent days, we also found comments (via Xinhuanet) from China President Xi Jinping on the auto industry quite interesting.​

When translated, the following comment particularly got our attention:

“Currently, competition in the international auto manufacturing business is intense, information technology and AI technology are under constant development, this represents an incredible risk to us. We must control the critical technology, we need to have this mind set, develop a national car brand.

. We must control the critical technology, we need to have this mind set, develop a national car brand.

Nothing wrong with that. Look at CATL- China is on their way to leading the world in battery cells. Without the chains that the legacy oems have they can do the same with autos. Clearly Tesla cannot make enough EVs for everyone in the world. I welcome China's efforts in sustainability. They will learn from Tesla and apply what they learn.
 
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I know this has been posted but do we know average days after either the ER (or another financial record...... ) release Date the inclusion notice would traditionally occur??? I’ve heard 7-10 days? Granted Tesla aignt traditional but hoping for the best!
Some analysts expect 7 to 10 days according to Barrons' article yesterday A Tesla Bull Expects a Big Offering of New Equity if Company Gets Into S&P 500 . But I also heard someone expect it to be few weeks.

Screen Shot 2020-07-24 at 4.25.58 PM.png
 
I am betting the retail Robinhood group is forced into margin calls because they didn't know Robinhood reassess your margin on the fly and instantly. It is not relevant if it the drop is 1% or 50%. You just get an instant margin call. It is why I refuse to use Robinhood margin. I tried it when it first came out and it is ridiculous. I would contact tech support about ask why I was in a margin call. They would look at my account and respond I was not in a margin call. I would send them screenshots of their APP telling me I was in a margin call and they would not know why. Then at the end of the year or at their choosing they would just sell off half my stock even tho I was not in a margin call months later and say they reserve the right to cover all margin calls any time in the future. Seriously Robinhood users do not use Robinhood margin. There is a reason this APP is free. They make money somehow. Use only the free portion.

Robinhood isn't getting margin called, it's heavily buying the dip.

robin1.jpg


At this rate, it might surpass MSFT, AAPL, and DAL soon to enter the top 5 most popular stock on Robinhood:

robin2.jpg
 
I posted yesterday about DCOM. DCOM filed 10Q on April 28th 2020 and the announcement to add to S&P came on May 6th. So yes it can happen in 7-10 days but we definitely need a 10Q first.

I think @smorgasbord hinted speculated that S&P might take more than the normal time to review TSLA financials because we are so special :)

FTFY.

I have no special nor inside information. We don't know if the Committee is looking for an excuse to keep Tesla out, or if they really want Tesla in now that they can, or whether they're just bowing to pressure since everyone expects it to be added, or what.

I've also read the Committee meets monthly and we have no idea what their schedule might be. Could be Aug 1, could be Aug 31.
 
Some analysts expect 7 to 10 days according to Barrons' article yesterday A Tesla Bull Expects a Big Offering of New Equity if Company Gets Into S&P 500 . But I also heard someone expect it to be few weeks.

View attachment 568644
Really getting tired of news sources getting the 4 quarters GAAP profitability metric wrong.
It's a positive total, not four positive quarters.
Yes, four positive quarters will have a positive sum, but that's not what they are writing.
Personally, I blame ...
Woolly carp! Investopedia actually updated their S&P article!
The S&P 500: The Index You Need To Know
Though strangely, they have an reference that is dated after the article's edit date...
(And still have must instead of should)

/whine
 
And I still don’t get the drop today

This is not directed at you but as someone who used to worry about these drops I think I can offer some advice to people who are new to these forums. I realize it's disappointing to an investor when the company you love so much and is probably a decent chunk of your portfolio does not get the bump you expected. That said macros were bad for the past few days and what are we down 11% from Wednesday's close?. TSLA can get that back in a few hours on Monday. Also a lot of AH trading is noise and way more manipulated then regular hours trading. Like this morning somebody dumped 20K shares at the pre market open to manufacture a 5% drop in 10 minutes. There is nothing you can do except HODL.

This is a volatile stock(heck even Elon agrees) so instead of worrying about all the different manipulations that went into manufacturing the drop I suggest we focus on using that time to educate fellow investors and help with the transition to clean energy. If you wish to be adventurous there are a number of things you can do with your investment to either reduce risk or get a high 'dividend'. I'm not suggesting or recommending this by any means but only if you have the time to learn and apply some of the concepts from other threads in these forums. Again this is only for advanced investors but this is one way to minimize risk and get paid. You will need to put in a lot of time to learn the concepts and start small until you learn the ropes. Please skip the next section if you are not interested.

Options:

Understand that a lot of the daily and weekly price action for TSLA is driven by option selling and buying. You will see how option buyers manipulate the stock price by buying calls, often times paying millions for lottos. These big buyers can move the market. MMs then are forced to delta hedge and boom you get a double effect if institutional buyers or hedge funds also decide to buy at the same time. This and short selling are two big reasons why TSLA continues to be volatile.
  • Selling cash covered puts: See the wheel thread by @adiggs to learn how to apply the wheel to sell options(calls and puts). This strategy has really helped a number of folks on this forum. The idea is to sell aggressive puts and far OTM puts in some cases. If you get assigned the idea is to then sell aggressive calls. Again this requires capital and NOT recommended on margin.
  • Selling covered calls: See the wheel thread by @adiggs. I'm not a big fan of selling covered calls for small bucks but there is money to be made if you sell high: For eg: On days when SP has appreciated a lot or during periods where IV is really high.
  • Buying calls in rare circumstances: Buying calls only makes sense when the SP is on a downswing(like today) or when the market has mispriced the premiums. This is mostly gambling so be very careful with this one. But like @KarenRei famously used to say Buy low sell high. Not very complicated but you just need to be smart and not FOMO buy. I think @FrankSG has made some good posts about when it might make sense to buy LEAPS vs buying shares.

Understanding technicals

@Artful Dodger and @Papafox have great end of day summary threads. Spend time to understand Bollinger bands, 5 day MA etc and how the price discovery happens for TSLA. There is a wealth of knowledge in those threads so definitely take some time to understand it. These technicals are useful to understand your buy points and key support/resistance levels. Useful if you are looking to add to your positions. The MMs and shorts will always give you an opportunity to buy low. Apparently they have an infinite bank account balance and love to donate money.

The HODL mentality

You almost need a zen like mentality to be a long term investor in TSLA. There will be ups and downs.Try to not look at the stock price on a daily basis if you can. Instead continue to learn more about the company and make sure you continue to believe in the long term thesis of your investment. @StealthP3D has made some excellent posts about how to be in that state of mind. I can't recommend a specific thread but there is wisdom in most of his posts :). There also other long timers in these forums that continue to post on a daily basis. The point is this is a long race and it starts with your mind.

Sorry for the long post but I hope some of the newcomers find this useful. Cheers.

st,small,845x845-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg
 
Tesla (TSLA) Q2 2020 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

So we think that getting a range that is in the high 200 -- basically, we think you probably getting a range of almost 300 miles with an iron phosphate pack, taking into account a whole bunch of powertrain and other vehicle efficiencies. And that frees up a lot of capacity for things like the Tesla Semi and the other projects so far higher energy density. So, yes, so you have like two supply chains that you can tap into iron phosphate or nickel. We use very little cobalt in our system already, and that's -- that may to zero along, so it's basically about nickel.

It just watched a limiting factor discussing this topic, that is why I went back and sourced the actual earnings call quote from Elon...

Obviously if Telsa is Nickel constrained, LFP makes sense for powerwall and some other energy storage battery types.

For cars LFP needs less thermal management and a smaller pack can charge faster, combined with cell-to-pack and there is an opportunity to save weight and cost by making a pack with less packaging..

Combine with heat pump, octovalve and other efficiencies, the question is of Tesla could make a reasonable SR Model 3 in the US and elsewhere, with around 300 miles of range, using LFP cells.

I would see this as starting with the entry level Model 3 only, it is important to be pragmatic and not be battery chemistry snobs,,, if LFP can do a reasonable job for some use cases, and reduces costs allowing Tesla to reduce ASPs for those "entry level" cars, that is a win.

I'm happy for Nickel to be used on the higher ASP models and the Semi, where it is needed. If "high end" products and "entry level" products are to fighting for the same raw materials, that is a win.
 
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After-action Report: Fri, Jul 24, 2020: (Full-Day's Trading)

Headline: "TSLA Bounces Off Mid-BB"

Traded: $27,612,072,382.87 ($27.61 B)
Volume: 19,402,532
VWAP: $1,423.12

Closing SP / VWAP: 99.56%
(TSLA closed BELOW today's Avg SP)
Mkt Cap: TSLA / TM = $262.818B / $172.77B = 152.12%​

TSLA 1-mth Moving Avg Market Cap: $255.74
TSLA 6-mth Moving Avg Market Cap: $155.08
Nota Bene: TSLA exceeded $150B 6-mth avg Mkt Cap on Tue, Jul 21, 2020

'Short' Report:

FINRA Short/Total Volume = 40.7% (43rd Percentile rank Shorting)
FINRA Volume / Total NASDAQ Vol = 50.4% (51st Percentile rank FINRA Reporting)
FINRA Short Exempt Volume was 1.37% of Short Volume (52nd Percentile Rank)​

TSLA - SUMMARY TABLE - 2020-07-24.png


Comment: "2020-07-15 TSLA SI 12.71M sh or 6.89%/float; Dn -1.25M sh; Lowest SI > 2yrs"

View all Lodger's After-Action Reports

Cheers!
 
This is not directed at you but as someone who used to worry about these drops I think I can offer some advice to people who are new to these forums. I realize it's disappointing to an investor when the company you love so much and is probably a decent chunk of your portfolio does not get the bump you expected. That said macros were bad for the past few days and what are we down 11% from Wednesday's close?. TSLA can get that back in a few hours on Monday. Also a lot of AH trading is noise and way more manipulated then regular hours trading. Like this morning somebody dumped 20K shares at the pre market open to manufacture a 5% drop in 10 minutes. There is nothing you can do except HODL.

This is a volatile stock(heck even Elon agrees) so instead of worrying about all the different manipulations that went into manufacturing the drop I suggest we focus on using that time to educate fellow investors and help with the transition to clean energy. If you wish to be adventurous there are a number of things you can do with your investment to either reduce risk or get a high 'dividend'. I'm not suggesting or recommending this by any means but only if you have the time to learn and apply some of the concepts from other threads in these forums. Again this is only for advanced investors but this is one way to minimize risk and get paid. You will need to put in a lot of time to learn the concepts and start small until you learn the ropes. Please skip the next section if you are not interested.

Options:

Understand that a lot of the daily and weekly price action for TSLA is driven by option selling and buying. You will see how option buyers manipulate the stock price by buying calls, often times paying millions for lottos. These big buyers can move the market. MMs then are forced to delta hedge and boom you get a double effect if institutional buyers or hedge funds also decide to buy at the same time. This and short selling are two big reasons why TSLA continues to be volatile.
  • Selling cash covered puts: See the wheel thread by @adiggs to learn how to apply the wheel to sell options(calls and puts). This strategy has really helped a number of folks on this forum. The idea is to sell aggressive puts and far OTM puts in some cases. If you get assigned the idea is to then sell aggressive calls. Again this requires capital and NOT recommended on margin.
  • Selling covered calls: See the wheel thread by @adiggs. I'm not a big fan of selling covered calls for small bucks but there is money to be made if you sell high: For eg: On days when SP has appreciated a lot or during periods where IV is really high.
  • Buying calls in rare circumstances: Buying calls only makes sense when the SP is on a downswing(like today) or when the market has mispriced the premiums. This is mostly gambling so be very careful with this one. But like @KarenRei famously used to say Buy low sell high. Not very complicated but you just need to be smart and not FOMO buy. I think @FrankSG has made some good posts about when it might make sense to buy LEAPS vs buying shares.
Understanding technicals

@Artful Dodger and @Papafox have great end of day summary threads. Spend time to understand Bollinger bands, 5 day MA etc and how the price discovery happens for TSLA. There is a wealth of knowledge in those threads so definitely take some time to understand it. These technicals are useful to understand your buy points and key support/resistance levels. Useful if you are looking to add to your positions. The MMs and shorts will always give you an opportunity to buy low. Apparently they have an infinite bank account balance and love to donate money.

The HODL mentality

You almost need a zen like mentality to be a long term investor in TSLA. There will be ups and downs.Try to not look at the stock price on a daily basis if you can. Instead continue to learn more about the company and make sure you continue to believe in the long term thesis of your investment. @StealthP3D has made some excellent posts about how to be in that state of mind. I can't recommend a specific thread but there is wisdom in most of his posts :). There also other long timers in these forums that continue to post on a daily basis. The point is this is a long race and it starts with your mind.

Sorry for the long post but I hope some of the newcomers find this useful. Cheers.

st,small,845x845-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg
Not surprised at drop off of SP after earnings. This SP rise has been insane lately. If I were a short term or day trader, I would probably do the same (which I am not).

Amazing what relativity does in physics and as a stock holder. Long term stockholders complaining about a few red days is lame.

I have been a shareholder since 2013 (not as long as some others here) and I continue to hold for many more years. Love Musk and Tesla and am proud to be Tesla car owner and stockholder!
 
Little weekend OT:

My username is finally going to make sense in a few months!

I heard yesterday that I got accepted into INSEAD's MBA program :D:D:D:D:D

That'll start in Singapore in January, so I'll finally be moving to Singapore sometime later this year :)

View attachment 568654
Huge congrats, Frank!
 
The HODL mentality

You almost need a zen like mentality to be a long term investor in TSLA. There will be ups and downs.Try to not look at the stock price on a daily basis if you can. I
Brilliant stuff.

I wanted to add on to this particular piece. I understand the idea behind HODL (Hand On for Dear Life). However, I think it carries the wrong connotation, with that wrong connotation leading to why this can be hard, and why one needs a zen mentality to be a long term investor.

If you see the product, strategy, and execution of the company as I do, then you've got a 10+ year investment horizon. On that scale, these quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily, and hourly gyrations are truly irrelevant. Whether the share price today is 1200, 120, or 12,000 is really all the same (I readily admit that somewhere around 3,000 for me, that might no longer be the case :D).

They only way they are different is if you think the product, strategy, and/or execution have changed for the worse (relative to the details of your own investment thesis).


So for instance, I don't care about this quarter's deliveries (or next quarter, or last quarter). I really don't, because a car that isn't delivered this quarter is delivered next quarter. The revenue and profit shows up now or later - I care about production. And I don't really care about production quarter to quarter - more at the annual level, and whether the year to year growth is tracking (i.e. - execution).

This is the distinction I make between Tesla (which I follow very closely) and TSLA (which I've begun following more closely this last 4 months or so, due to the option selling I've begun doing, but previously went weeks without knowing the share price). When following Tesla and holding TSLA shares, I care about how the company is executing and what they are doing, not the stock price.


With HODL, it sort of implies that you're watching the day to day (or weekly, monthly, quarterly) price changes, and it matters to you whether the shares are 1200, 1400, or 1700 today. In that case, you need fortification to hold on at 1200 because it's dropping and you could lose a lot. Similarly, at 1700, you need fortification because that's near the all time high and the shares could plummet, but with your HODL mentality, you're going to grit your teeth and ride it out. With buy and hold, it's all paper changes and if your horizon is long enough, they don't matter.

Either up or down, if you're HODLing then you're really operating on a short term mindset (MHO) and you're talking yourself into a long term mindset.

The only thing difficult for me about the drop under $200 last year, was that I wasn't sufficiently aware of it to buy more shares - not that the paper value of my shares had changed to the downside (any more than I care that this year, the paper value of my shares is .. more). I also readily admit that higher and higher shares prices is more fun (and still irrelevant).


My original investment in 2012 had a 10+ year investment horizon. It's 8 years later, and my investment horizon has been updated to be 10+ years. I say 10+ because somewhere out there it's impossible to guess what's going on. My REAL investment in the company is a reasonably strong belief that I'll own my TSLA shares until my wife and I pass from this world, and leave them to a worthy charity of our choice (sort of like Buffet and his Berkshire shares, if on a somewhat different order of magnitude :D).

This by the way is also why I've begun learning about option selling - I need cash I can turn into food, shelter, clothing, and maybe a new Roadster in the meantime, and I REALLY don't want to sell the shares, whether they are 200, 1200, 2200, or maybe even 22,000.
 
While an imperfect comparison, it is interesting to see what happened when FB was added to the S&P 500 in 2013. After a quick run-up and then a brief pullback, FB S&P inclusion was announced Dec 11 and was added Dec 20, 2013. FB then went on a 3+ year bull run increasing SP by 250%.

TSLA has had a quick run-up and brief pullback and is now eligible for S&P inclusion. If we follow FB's footsteps and increase 250% over the next 3 years, we will reach Cathie Wood's mystical $4,000 SP prediction (since revised upward) by the end of 2023. Just sayin'.


Screen Shot 2020-07-24 at 8.07.26 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-07-24 at 7.55.49 PM.png
 
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Little weekend OT:

My username is finally going to make sense in a few months!

I heard yesterday that I got accepted into INSEAD's MBA program :D:D:D:D:D

That'll start in Singapore in January, so I'll finally be moving to Singapore sometime later this year :)

View attachment 568654
based on your contributions to this thread and your excellent BLOG ... i am sure you will do very well indeed... in fact you will probably be able to teach the Finance classes
 
Some analysts expect 7 to 10 days according to Barrons' article yesterday A Tesla Bull Expects a Big Offering of New Equity if Company Gets Into S&P 500 . But I also heard someone expect it to be few weeks.

View attachment 568644
I don’t think another $10 billion in cash is that enticing to Elon. They can’t spend the cash they have and are trending towards cash flow positive going forward. I hope they say “no” to any suggestion of issuing new shares for the index funds.
 
FUDsters won the battle. Longs will win the war. Patience will pay off in the long run. HODL on.
I also think the expectations of both a profitable quarter and the new facilities at Austin were built in the SP leading up to the announcement. As one of our members stated yesterday, it's the axiom "Buy on the rumor, sell on the news."

Not to worry as there are too many good things to come in the rest of the year the future looks as bright as a SpaceX rocket plume!
 
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