Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

[linux-works]

otoh, US law says that if some company sent you something in the mail and you didn't order it, you don't have to spent time/money/effort returning it. that vendor mistake is your gain.

so, there is already established convention that mistakes in your favor don't always have to be paid back.

(that may be a corner case, though)

 

[trm2]

The dealer paid at presumably market auction values for the car equipped with EAP and FSD as inspected during the auction process. So the dealer did pay for the features.

This is the one great unknown. We don't know if Tesla sold it with the software or not. If the auction listing called it out as being on the car, well, then it is yet another black mark for Tesla. If the car wasn't offered at auction with the software, it is a different story.

 

[Battpower]

This is the one great unknown. We don't know if Tesla sold it with the software or not. If the auction listing called it out as being on the car, well, then it is yet another black mark for Tesla. If the car wasn't offered at auction with the software, it is a different story.

Have you read the Jalopnik review? Based on the evidence there and the OP, not only was at least EAP on the car when in the OP's posession, but it was removed after the car was with the dealer already. The disclosure from Tesla makes no mention of FSD being removed.

 

[MP3Mike]

not only was at least EAP on the car when in the OP's posession

No, the OP said that the dealer told them that it went away before the OP took possession of the vehicle.

 

[MS-Alec]

This is the one great unknown. We don't know if Tesla sold it with the software or not. If the auction listing called it out as being on the car, well, then it is yet another black mark for Tesla. If the car wasn't offered at auction with the software, it is a different story.

Have you ever being on those Auctions?
Basically, you buy what you see - AS-IS basic, unless it has the disclosure attached or announced at the sale time. The seller CANNOT remove anything after!

 

[Battpower]

No, the OP said that the dealer told them that it went away before the OP took possession of the vehicle.

Take a look at the Jalopnik article. Unless I'm completely misreading it (always possible!) then there is more clarity and more accurate timing of events than the OP originally posted.

In any case, the OP bought the car based on a reasonable representation from the dealer that the car had at least EAP (based on picture of MCU screen).

 

[tccartier]

The sad fact is, when buying a used Tesla, it is buyer beware. It is very difficult to determine exactly what configuration the car has once the car goes through Tesla’s “hands” and is sold at auction or via a 3rd party dealership.

That has changed with the most recent version 10 software update pushed out to the fleet. The car will now report its content on the touchscreen and it will tell you what options the car has.

 

[MP3Mike]

That has changed with the most recent version 10 software update pushed out to the fleet. The car will now report its content on the touchscreen and it will tell you what options the car has.

No, it tells you what hardware it has, it doesn't tell you what software options have been enabled. (Unless I have missed something.)

 

[Huachipato]

I have you looked at the "additional Information" screen and It doesn't say too much about my car.

 

[DeanP]

Moderator note: This post, plus a few of those following (20-ish) were merged from another thread on the same topic in another forum. Please don't start multiple threads on the same topic.

I asked about this in a different thread and was told no, but obviously not. Tesla sold a car that was used, advertised it with AP and FSD and after the sale disabled it stating the new owner was not privy to those feature because he did not buy them.

Here is the article.

If that's their intent they should let it be known.

 

[doghousePVD]

No, a dealer misrepresented the car. The article you cited is inaccurate.

Besides all the hype, Autopilot was not removed

Fully Self Driving FSD was removed. It has almost no functionality at present anyway.

Stop spreading FUD. It’s boring and unbecoming.

 

[DeanP]

No, a dealer misrepresented the car. The article you cited is inaccurate.

Besides all the hype, Autopilot was not removed

Fully Self Driving FSD was removed. It has almost no functionality at present anyway.

Stop spreading FUD. It’s boring and unbecoming.

I read the article and the updated article and they both state the same thing. I bought my car from out of state which was advertised with AP. When I received it there was no AP except for the safety part of awareness. This just states what probably happened. How is this FUD? Is this Tesla's policy?

 

[patrick40363]

I read the article and the updated article and they both state the same thing. I bought my car from out of state which was advertised with AP. When I received it there was no AP except for the safety part of awareness. This just states what probably happened. How is this FUD? Is this Tesla's policy?

You got screwed.

 

[DeanP]

You got screwed.

Does this mean purchased software packages stay with the owner?

 

[Eno Deb]

No, a dealer misrepresented the car. The article you cited is inaccurate.

Besides all the hype, Autopilot was not removed

Fully Self Driving FSD was removed. It has almost no functionality at present anyway.

According to the original Jalopnik article both EAP and FSD (the old one before Tesla re-defined it) were removed *after* Tesla sold the car to the dealer. The article shows some documents that appear to prove that. If true, I think that's completely unacceptable. Whether the first owner had paid for the features or not is irrelevant IMO since the car was sold with them to the dealer.

 

[Eno Deb]

Does this mean purchased software packages stay with the owner?

Nope. It seems Tesla takes away software features on used cars they sell so they can cash in two times if the new owner wants them too (and three times if the first owner then buys another Tesla and wants the package again).

 

[azred]

You indicate the car was sold by Tesla at auction and bought by a 3rd party dealership (not Tesla) who then sold it to you. Therein lies the problem.

It’s been well known for some time that when Tesla sells used vehicles at auction or even directly to a new individual that they remove features such as free unlimited supercharging for the life of the vehicle, free premium internet, FSD, etc. Once Tesla takes a car in as a trade, they are free to add/delete whatever features they want before reselling or auctioning the vehicle. They have been doing this for some time. What is on the Marony sheet is irrelevant to a 3rd party purchase once the used car was sold back to Tesla.

On the other hand, if the original owner of the car had sold it directly to you (that is, the original owner did not “sell” the car back to Tesla or did not sell it to a non-Tesla dealer (such as, but not limited to Carmax, a Mercedes dealer, etc)), Tesla would be precluded from removing features of the car.

It is posted on Tesla’s website somewhere what are the effects of buying a used vehicle that went from Tesla to the original buyer, then back to Tesla before being sold at a later date to you.

I am not defending Tesla and I think such actions hurt the brand name, but it was incumbent upon you to carefully research exactly what features were included on the 3rd party purchase you were making. If the dealership you bought the car from represented that the car has FSD, your gripe is with that dealer and not Tesla (the dealer should know Tesla’s policy with respect to buying vehicles at auction).

The sad fact is, when buying a used Tesla, it is buyer beware. It is very difficult to determine exactly what configuration the car has once the car goes through Tesla’s “hands” and is sold at auction or via a 3rd party dealership.

Nonsense. Everything you said sounds correct but the problem here is Tesla didn’t strip the software when they had the car in their hands. They only stripped it after it passed through two subsequent owners — the third party dealership and the current, unhappy owner. I don’t like the fact they strip features on used cars in their inventory but believe they have the right to do so. However, that is not the case here — unless you know additional facts that Tesla in fact stripped the software when they owned the car??

This story is being poorly reported by the media to say the least. Let’s not add to the misinformation! Tesla is totally in the wrong and I bet they will reverse the decision even if we never hear about it.

I don’t know what steps the current owner went through to get relief but he/she should talk to the Regional Manager at a minimum. In the region encompassing AZ I have the Regional Manager in my Contacts and have had him intervene twice in my favor over the years. Raising hell online isn’t the first step to getting relief.

 

[trm2]

Have you ever being on those Auctions?
Basically, you buy what you see - AS-IS basic, unless it has the disclosure attached or announced at the sale time. The seller CANNOT remove anything after!

Yes, I've seen the auctions before, but I didn't see that one. And you just agreed with me (despite previously disagreeing) when you say "unless it has the disclosure attached or announced at the sale time". We haven't seen the auction documentation - it could have been included or excluded, we don't know.

Is it likely Tesla is wrong here? 99% yes.

 

[DeanP]

Nope. It seems Tesla takes away software features on used cars they sell so they can cash in two times if the new owner wants them too (and three times if the first owner then buys another Tesla and wants the package again).

That's just wrong...

 

[Az_Rael]

Yes, I've seen the auctions before, but I didn't see that one. And you just agreed with me (despite previously disagreeing) when you say "unless it has the disclosure attached or announced at the sale time". We haven't seen the auction documentation - it could have been included or excluded, we don't know.

Is it likely Tesla is wrong here? 99% yes.

There is a copy of the disclosure statement for the auction in the Jalopnik article. Tesla Remotely Removes Autopilot Features From Customer's Used Tesla Without Any Notice [Updated]