The public does not understand EV range

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The vast majority of the general public have no experience with the ev and the factors effecting range. They think of EV range as they would with an ICE vehicle. They assume the more highway driving the better the mileage. The public has no idea that just the opposite is true with EVs given the advances in regenerative braking and its' absence at continuous highway speeds. They also are unaware that Tesla's range estimates are primarily for city driving. The best range is achieved when closest to home driving in city traffic and very near your primary charging location. They don't understand that range is only important for long distance highway travel.

The prospective ev buyer can save thousands of dollars by forgoing 350+ range ev's, if the vehicle is to be used primarily as a commuter. For the few times they travel cross country, there will be a few more charging stops which should be easier to rationalize given the saving of $10.000.00 plus dollars.

Norway shows that while education campaigns are helpful, you don't really need them.

People learn.

But in the USA, stop even trying to talk about savings. If people really wanted to save money on their vehicles, the largest segments wouldn't be small crossovers/SUVs and pick-ups, it'd still be compact hatchbacks.

 

[LoudMusic]

I also see the F-150 lightning and the Chevy Silverado EV being big sellers in Texas when they become available... not so sure about the cybertruck.

Keith

I think a lot of people like the look of traditional trucks, but might see benefit in electrification. I agree with you.

I think there's also a lot of yuppies that want something more like the Rivian R1T, which still looks like a truck but maybe "classier".

The cybertruck is just a bit too wacky. Like a DeLorean. And that is off-putting for a lot of people.

Or, maybe I'm just projecting my own opinion onto millions of other people

 

[Rocky_H]

I think a lot of people like the look of traditional trucks, but might see benefit in electrification. I agree with you.

I think there's also a lot of yuppies that want something more like the Rivian R1T, which still looks like a truck but maybe "classier".

The cybertruck is just a bit too wacky. Like a DeLorean. And that is off-putting for a lot of people.

Or, maybe I'm just projecting my own opinion onto millions of other people

Oh it's plenty of real truck owners; I've talked with a few. I was on a trip in 2020, and was at the Twin Falls, ID Supercharger. A family pulled up there in a Ford truck, and the guy came over to talk with me. He said he liked Teslas and had been looking forward to their electric truck, but when it debuted and looked so hideous, he just couldn't tolerate buying one, so he was just going to have to wait to see if Tesla or someone else would make a normal looking electric truck. I have another friend who feels the same way.

 

[job-lek]

Unfortunately nobody publishes an expected range with four adults, some bags, really hot/cold weather with the climate control running full blast, with precipitation and a headwind on the interstate--on a battery with 5 years' degredation. Instead we get the range for a brand-new car in ideal weather with a lightweight solo driver going 45.

You’re so wrong here. There is an excellent app called abetterrouteplanner that takes all of this information into account.
Never want to drive a fossil car again. No need to go to the petrolstation and having a fully charged car every morning.

 

[boulder.dude]

You’re so wrong here. There is an excellent app called abetterrouteplanner that takes all of this information into account.
Never want to drive a fossil car again. No need to go to the petrolstation and having a fully charged car every morning.

Wait, you’re expecting the general public to download ABRP and do what-if analysis?

 

[GBMaryland]

I tell you what… When I picked up my model three in 2019 and suddenly Tesla told me never to charge the car above 80% or let it drop below 20% that was a rude awakening.

Then, that the rated mileage on the car would never be achievable with the tires I bought with the car from Tesla…

Basically, Tesla did a really bad job telling me any of this prior to the day I picked up the car. Certainly the kind of shenanigans that a normal car dealer would do.

 

[boulder.dude]

I tell you what… When I picked up my model three in 2019 and suddenly Tesla told me never to charge the car above 80% or let it drop below 20% that was a rude awakening.

Then, that the rated mileage on the car would never be achievable with the tires I bought with the car from Tesla…

Basically, Tesla did a really bad job telling me any of this prior to the day I picked up the car. Certainly the kind of shenanigans that a normal car dealer would do.

Is it Tesla’s job? There job is to sell as many cars as possible. There needs to be ground rules (regulations) that all EV makers follow. The EPA missed a huge opportunity when they created eMPG standards to set realistic expectations with consumers.

 

[tangible1]

Is it Tesla’s job? There job is to sell as many cars as possible. There needs to be ground rules (regulations) that all EV makers follow. The EPA missed a huge opportunity when they created eMPG standards to set realistic expectations with consumers.

Well,,.....
It is Tesla's job - to persuade people to buy their cars.
In order to be persuasive, usually you need to help people understand.
To the extent that they are able to help, determines how much they sell.

In the case of Tesla, they latched on to the idea of green environmental benefits, saving the planet, and became about virtue signalling more than 'real world' issues.
Tesla also became the 'cool tech' transportation vendor.
Now that the green market has become saturated, and the cool factor is saited, the more rational, practical type of customer is needing more .... persuasion.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

...the best consumer is an educated consumer


(with lots and lots of money)

 

[JustJohn]

I still get asked "How often do you charge it?" to which I reply "every night when I get home, why wouldn't you?"
I've also found it helpful to reframe the mileage/range question in terms of time so when people hear I can spend a little over 4 hours on average before needing to charge they actually start thinking about how long they typically sit in their own car every day. This probably needs to be tailored to the audience though, I don't have to sit still in LA traffic.

 

[Fourdoor]

I tell you what… When I picked up my model three in 2019 and suddenly Tesla told me never to charge the car above 80% or let it drop below 20% that was a rude awakening.

Then, that the rated mileage on the car would never be achievable with the tires I bought with the car from Tesla…

Basically, Tesla did a really bad job telling me any of this prior to the day I picked up the car. Certainly the kind of shenanigans that a normal car dealer would do.

Is it Tesla’s job? There job is to sell as many cars as possible. There needs to be ground rules (regulations) that all EV makers follow. The EPA missed a huge opportunity when they created eMPG standards to set realistic expectations with consumers.

I think the point is that when it comes to misleading the customer when people say "at least with Tesla you don't have to deal with an evil dealership" they don't seem to realize that this just means you have to deal with the evil parent company. Tesla as a company is just as deceptive as the sleaziest used car salesman on the planet.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

...the best consumer is an educated consumer


(with lots and lots of money)

The best consumer for the manufacturer is an ignorant, vain, rich consumer that can be manipulated into an upsell by flattery and BS.

Keith

 

[TomServo]

We just returned from a 2K road trip (southern IL to southern MD via I-64) and on our first day we drove 460 miles to our hotel in WVA in heavy rain, almost torrential, and we were shocked at how much our range was impacted. We were averaging 400+ wh/mi. We had to stop at EVERY Super Charger along our route and charge 20% to 30% beyond the projected arrival SOC projection.

To complicate matters every time we got out of the car to charge not only did we get soaked but so did the car (the winds were that bad) which then caused the HVAC system to work harder to keep the windows clear. A double whammy. I longed for a covered gas station.

It was scary and brutal. I calculated our max range could have been as bad as 200 to 210 miles under those conditions.

 

[GtiMart]

I'm not following some of the arguments here. Some are saying Tesla's evil? The explanations to the augmentation in consumption are because of physics, they are not Tesla's fault. ICE cars are subject to pretty much all of the same things, except the energy spent in heating the cabin because they take (waste!) heat from the engine. Since the ICE engine is only ~30% efficient to start with, the rest of the differences appear smaller but they are there. In those winter conditions I suspect no ICE vehicle does the EPA. My ICE cars have always had much worse fuel consumption in winter here. No one is complaining to Ford or others about it.
Tesla, and other EV makers, could indeed explain things much better. There could be informational campaigns etc. Sales reps could make a much better job of informing potential buyers. We could argue that the EPA (and WLTP) tests are not representative of our conditions, of the way we drive. That's not their goal, their goal is to provide an equivalent base so we can compare cars with each other.
I would welcome an authority that would test all EVs using a "winter" set of conditions. There could be graphs indicating consumption are a factor of speed. As the OP states, the public doesn't understand EV range, I agree to that. I don't agree to calling Tesla evil or going on with conspiracy theories though

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I tell you what… When I picked up my model three in 2019 and suddenly Tesla told me never to charge the car above 80% or let it drop below 20% that was a rude awakening.

Then, that the rated mileage on the car would never be achievable with the tires I bought with the car from Tesla…

Basically, Tesla did a really bad job telling me any of this prior to the day I picked up the car. Certainly the kind of shenanigans that a normal car dealer would do.

Well, at least you now know that that "never" above 80% or let it drop below 20% is completely bogus.

 

[Fourdoor]

I'm not following some of the arguments here. Some are saying Tesla's evil? The explanations to the augmentation in consumption are because of physics, they are not Tesla's fault. ICE cars are subject to pretty much all of the same things, except the energy spent in heating the cabin because they take (waste!) heat from the engine. Since the ICE engine is only ~30% efficient to start with, the rest of the differences appear smaller but they are there. In those winter conditions I suspect no ICE vehicle does the EPA. My ICE cars have always had much worse fuel consumption in winter here. No one is complaining to Ford or others about it.
Tesla, and other EV makers, could indeed explain things much better. There could be informational campaigns etc. Sales reps could make a much better job of informing potential buyers. We could argue that the EPA (and WLTP) tests are not representative of our conditions, of the way we drive. That's not their goal, their goal is to provide an equivalent base so we can compare cars with each other.
I would welcome an authority that would test all EVs using a "winter" set of conditions. There could be graphs indicating consumption are a factor of speed. As the OP states, the public doesn't understand EV range, I agree to that. I don't agree to calling Tesla evil or going on with conspiracy theories though

I was just pointing out that the stereotype that dealerships lie and because Tesla doesn't have dealerships everything will be rainbows and butterflies is BS. Neither dealerships nor Tesla are "evil" but both are manipulative and dishonest like every other business trying to sell a product.

Keith

PS: Love the thumbs down on that... sorry to hurt your feelings finman.

 

[GtiMart]

All right, thanks for the clarity. Yep, they are there to sell cars and saying "hey, by the way, you might only get half of that announced range" wouldn't help. The truth is, it wouldn't be true either. Some people around me are saying they are getting the EPA. They must be driving very gently At best I do 80% of rated in summer and 50-60% in Quebec winter. But I understand why.

As said, I wholeheartedly agree that more information is required. I do see a lot of people that wouldn't listen to it in any case and would end up frustrated, but at least if the information would be more easily obtainable and it would help a good proportion of people.

Since I've had my car I've made it an obligation to myself to properly inform anyone that's interested. I try not to paint it as rainbows and unicorns but instead make it reasonable. That means I don't paint the darkest, worst picture either. But the real information is nuanced and needs a lot of detail, something not many people are willing to put up with.

 

[GBMaryland]

I was just pointing out that the stereotype that dealerships lie and because Tesla doesn't have dealerships everything will be rainbows and butterflies is BS. Neither dealerships nor Tesla are "evil" but both are manipulative and dishonest like every other business trying to sell a product.

Keith

PS: Love the thumbs down on that... sorry to hurt your feelings finman.

Totally agree. That's really the point I was trying to make. The folks are the "dealer" in the local mall didn't even slightly warn me that for typical daily driving / charging not below 20% or above 80%, and that you should not daily supercharge the battery.

That was revealed during the pick up the car process, and it might have caused me to not purchase a Tesla had I known that.

Likely, rather than put on those 19 inch wheels, I may have gone with 18 inch LRR tires...

However, pointing that out to me earlier in the sales process was risky to their bottom line, so they didn't say anything.

 

[boulder.dude]

I'm not following some of the arguments here. Some are saying Tesla's evil? The explanations to the augmentation in consumption are because of physics, they are not Tesla's fault.

Tesla is not at all evil. It’s a public company. It can be sued for not maximizing shareholder value (I.e. selling more cars). It has no obligation to educate the general public about EV tech details.

What’s missing is government regulations (or an EV-industry group) educating consumers and setting up the rules for all EV makers to play by. E.g. if they had an official “EPA Winter Range” value (to accompany the existing “Summer Range”) it would go a long way to managing consumers’ expectations.

 

[GtiMart]

Yeah, but let me play devil's advocate. What are the conditions for "winter range"? For some people in the US it would be around 32F with nothing on the ground and all season tires. For me the average should probably be closer to 0F, with snow tires, snow often on the ground, and days at -20F... Even that wouldn't tell the whole story. It's an easy problem to describe, it's not that easy to solve.