Two month impression

[Palisandr]

Disclaimer - I still think that we did the right move by buying the car when it was discounted and became eligible for the tax rebate.

Took delivery of 2023 MYLR on February 3rd of this year. Put 2500 miles on the car so far, it is a shared ride between me and my wife. Our ICE vehicle (Volvo XC90 2018) is only used when we need both to be at different locations at the same time. We also drive Volvo in the snow, MYLR is no match to it, feels unsafe (stock tires). And we also pick Volvo for long trips - the ride and seats are way more comfortable.

Two things I really miss on MY are the functional legacy automaker type parking assist with USS and the blind spot monitor in the mirrors. If these two things were implemented the choice for MY would be perfect.

As per Tesla vision replacing USS - this is an utterly false narrative - the frequency at which USS operates is way lower than the light frequency, therefore making it much more reliable than the Tesla vision for distance measurement. Physics and the current hardware just doesn't seem to support current Tesla's vision paradigm.

 

[nate704]

As per Tesla vision replacing USS - this is an utterly false narrative - the frequency at which USS operates is way lower than the light frequency, therefore making it much more reliable than the Tesla vision for distance measurement. Physics and the current hardware just doesn't seem to support current Tesla's vision paradigm.

I agree, and that's why you bought the car so cheap. I wish I could remove my USS and ask Tesla for $20k plus discount (including the tax credit).

 

[Destiny1701]

Funny I’m the exact opposite!
Have a Jan 22’ M3LR and a July 22’ MYP…both with USS and could not imagine parking in our garage without this feature.

What I do miss is rear cross traffic alert. Such a basic feature found in a Toyota Corolla even. An incredible safety feature…total miss here.

 

[NovaY]

Disclaimer - I still think that we did the right move by buying the car when it was discounted and became eligible for the tax rebate.

Took delivery of 2023 MYLR on February 3rd of this year. Put 2500 miles on the car so far, it is a shared ride between me and my wife. Our ICE vehicle (Volvo XC90 2018) is only used when we need both to be at different locations at the same time. We also drive Volvo in the snow, MYLR is no match to it, feels unsafe (stock tires). And we also pick Volvo for long trips - the ride and seats are way more comfortable.

Two things I really miss on MY are the functional legacy automaker type parking assist with USS and the blind spot monitor in the mirrors. If these two things were implemented the choice for MY would be perfect.

As per Tesla vision replacing USS - this is an utterly false narrative - the frequency at which USS operates is way lower than the light frequency, therefore making it much more reliable than the Tesla vision for distance measurement. Physics and the current hardware just doesn't seem to support current Tesla's vision paradigm.

We have the exact opposite experience, also 2 months and about 2500 miles into our Y. The Y is our vehicle of choice for long distance. It is a dar more relaxing drive due to the availability of enhanced autopilot. The ride is firm, I agree, but the Y seats are nice and soft, like sofa seats. Maybe the Volvo seats/suspension are just heavenly, however. I have not owned one.

The issue with Tesla vision has nothing to do with frequency. USS operates on sound waves, not electromagnetic waves. USS is akin to how bats navigate, they "ping" the world around them and listen for the echo. Tesla vision attempts to use stereoscopic vision to build a 3D model of the world. This is how human eyes/brain work. Tesla has a lot of work to do, but the idea is reasonable.

 

[Andrew85]

We have the exact opposite experience, also 2 months and about 2500 miles into our Y. The Y is our vehicle of choice for long distance. It is a dar more relaxing drive due to the availability of enhanced autopilot. The ride is firm, I agree, but the Y seats are nice and soft, like sofa seats. Maybe the Volvo seats/suspension are just heavenly, however. I have not owned one.

The issue with Tesla vision has nothing to do with frequency. USS operates on sound waves, not electromagnetic waves. USS is akin to how bats navigate, they "ping" the world around them and listen for the echo. Tesla vision attempts to use stereoscopic vision to build a 3D model of the world. This is how human eyes/brain work. Tesla has a lot of work to do, but the idea is reasonable.

Regarding road tripping - The Volvo XC90 is far more comfortable to be in. Enhanced auto-pilot was nearly unusable for me when I had my Tesla because of auto-wipers going berserk. Phantom breaking issues had also been bad for me. I find driving in my wifes Q7 to be much, much better experience. The only thing my Tesla was better for was performance/fun

Model Y is a great EV for road tripping because of SC network and range - but most ICE vehicles at this price point are better to road trip in.

 

[NovaY]

Funny I’m the exact opposite!
Have a Jan 22’ M3LR and a July 22’ MYP…both with USS and could not imagine parking in our garage without this feature.

What I do miss is rear cross traffic alert. Such a basic feature found in a Toyota Corolla even. An incredible safety feature…total miss here.

If they offered you 20k to remove those features from your '22 cars?

 

[NovaY]

Regarding road tripping - The Volvo XC90 is far more comfortable to be in. Enhanced auto-pilot was nearly unusable for me when I had my Tesla because of auto-wipers going berserk. Phantom breaking issues had also been bad for me. I find driving in my wifes Q7 to be much, much better experience. The only thing my Tesla was better for was performance/fun

Model Y is a great EV for road tripping because of SC network and range - but most ICE vehicles at this price point are better to road trip in.

We are pretty avid road trippers. Maybe we are still in the honeymoon phase with our Y. We will see how it goes after another few months.

 

[Andrew85]

We are pretty avid road trippers. Maybe we are still in the honeymoon phase with our Y. We will see how it goes after another few months.

Nothing wrong with a Model Y. It is a fantastic vehicle, which is why it is on my shortlist. I wouldn't even attempt a road trip in a non-Tesla EV either.

I just feel the main pro's of a Y isn't as important as something like comfort for road tripping. The seats are great but the suspension is harsh. Where I am SC costs are not much off from gas costs so if I had the choice, a luxury SUV would be better IMO for this use case. As an overall vehicle for my use case I would have the Model Y.

 

[Destiny1701]

If they offered you 20k to remove those features from your '22 cars?

Yes. Then I’d sell them and go buy a used replacement one with them lol.

Ok honestly…yes I would. For 20k I’ll hang up 2 tennis balls for garage. Cost: $2 Profit: $19,998

Point taken. I’d still have to have to deal with the wife complaining in parking areas but then I can spend 5k on a Hawaii trip and it’s done. She’ll never remember USS.

Cost: $5002. Profit: $14,998 lol

 

[Art84]

I have replaced Volvo S60 with Model Y. If I would still have S60, there is no way I would use it for the road rips anymore.
I agree on weird auto-vipers which I set to OFF and phantom breaking. But still, road trips on Tesla are much more enjoyable thing compared to Volvo. Yes, XC90 is a little more comfortable than S60, but not much. I can't wait for the next road trip this weekend.

 

[Palisandr]

I have replaced Volvo S60 with Model Y. If I would still have S60, there is no way I would use it for the road rips anymore.
I agree on weird auto-vipers which I set to OFF and phantom breaking. But still, road trips on Tesla are much more enjoyable thing compared to Volvo. Yes, XC90 is a little more comfortable than S60, but not much. I can't wait for the next road trip this weekend.

What year was your S60? I am surprised at your impression of MY having a better ride than the Volvo. The SPA-based SUVs are certainly better ride than the MY, including Pilot Assist (Volvo's version of the Tesla's basic autopilot). For example, PA does not disengage when changing lanes. Volvo is certainly quieter too. Never rode Volvo sedans, may be they are vastly inferior to their SUVs? And I think S60 is made in the USA, that could play a role too? Not sure what the answer is. And when I say the road trip I don't mean an hour drive. I mean 500-1000 mile trip.

Tesla is our first EV and the impression is that it is a little half-assed (autopilot disengages when changing lanes, no working park assist, no blind spot monitor, noise level, wipers, phantom braking). In words of Ron: "Never Half-Ass Two Things, Whole-Ass One Thing".

 

[nate704]

What year was your S60? I am surprised at your impression of MY having a better ride than the Volvo. The SPA-based SUVs are certainly better ride than the MY, including Pilot Assist (Volvo's version of the Tesla's basic autopilot). For example, PA does not disengage when changing lanes. Volvo is certainly quieter too. Never rode Volvo sedans, may be they are vastly inferior to their SUVs? And I think S60 is made in the USA, that could play a role too? Not sure what the answer is. And when I say the road trip I don't mean an hour drive. I mean 500-1000 mile trip.

Tesla is our first EV and the impression is that it is a little half-assed (autopilot disengages when changing lanes, no working park assist, no blind spot monitor, noise level, wipers, phantom braking). In words of Ron: "Never Half-Ass Two Things, Whole-Ass One Thing".

1. AP does not disengage when changing lanes if you signal before you change lanes. It disengages the "Auto Steer", but AP maintains the speed and other distance control functions.
2. If you know how to adjust side mirrors correctly, there is no blind spots.
3. Phantom braking is not major issue anymore and it's mostly user error and usually they ignore the conditions and environment.
4. What noise?

 

[Andrew85]

I have replaced Volvo S60 with Model Y. If I would still have S60, there is no way I would use it for the road rips anymore.
I agree on weird auto-vipers which I set to OFF and phantom breaking. But still, road trips on Tesla are much more enjoyable thing compared to Volvo. Yes, XC90 is a little more comfortable than S60, but not much. I can't wait for the next road trip this weekend.

The XC90 is much more comfortable and it not really comparable to a S60.

One is a sedan and the other is a 7 seater SUV and has more room and a better sitting position. The XC90 costs more than 50% more here. The top trim seats are also some of the best in the business at this price point. It is a very comfortable vehicle.

The Model Y is known for a harsh ride. There is no way a Model Y is more comfortable for a road trip than an XC90. My brother has a new XC90 and not one person has ever complained about ride quality. Can't say the same for my Tesla, especially in the back seats. My wife's Q7 is also more comfortable and it is worse than the XC90.

So you turn auto-wipers off, which turns off AP, how is that great for road tripping?

 

[Palisandr]

We have the exact opposite experience, also 2 months and about 2500 miles into our Y. The Y is our vehicle of choice for long distance. It is a dar more relaxing drive due to the availability of enhanced autopilot. The ride is firm, I agree, but the Y seats are nice and soft, like sofa seats. Maybe the Volvo seats/suspension are just heavenly, however. I have not owned one.

The issue with Tesla vision has nothing to do with frequency. USS operates on sound waves, not electromagnetic waves. USS is akin to how bats navigate, they "ping" the world around them and listen for the echo. Tesla vision attempts to use stereoscopic vision to build a 3D model of the world. This is how human eyes/brain work. Tesla has a lot of work to do, but the idea is reasonable.

Yes, you are right on your observation. I also should have added that not only frequency, but also the source plays a big role in measuring distance when comparing USS to Tesla Vision. With USS you have an active source - ultrasonic ping (just like bats), reflection from the obstruction/wall is captured and the distance is measured precisely (known velocity in the air and we know exactly the time travel to the obstruction). Tesla Vision, unfortunately, is completely passive, in other words no light - no image (unless you go for excessive image stacking in real time with moving vehicle, not sure if Tesla computer/programmers are capable of that). USS is a very simple analog technology with solid physics behind it and replacing it with eyeballing algorithms, which require compute power of image processing just does not make any sense from engineering point of view. And the current delta between promise and reality is just too big to believe that promises will ever come to fruition.

 

[Palisandr]

1. AP does not disengage when changing lanes if you signal before you change lanes. It disengages the "Auto Steer", but AP maintains the speed and other distance control functions.
2. If you know how to adjust side mirrors correctly, there is no blind spots.
3. Phantom braking is not major issue anymore and it's mostly user error and usually they ignore the conditions and environment.
4. What noise?

Somewhat agree with item 1 even though you understood exactly what I meant and engaged in word play. Volvo keeps autosteer (in your lingo) when changing lanes. Disagree with the rest points. I think it is a futile exercise to argue on these issues. Every person's subjective opinion depends on comparison matrix.: Yugo->MY big improvement, recent Audi/MB/Volvo->MY not so much. Again, MY fits our bill carting us around town on errands and kids engagements.

 

[NovaY]

Yes, you are right on your observation. I also should have added that not only frequency, but also the source plays a big role in measuring distance when comparing USS to Tesla Vision. With USS you have an active source - ultrasonic ping (just like bats), reflection from the obstruction/wall is captured and the distance is measured precisely (known velocity in the air and we know exactly the time travel to the obstruction). Tesla Vision, unfortunately, is completely passive, in other words no light - no image (unless you go for excessive image stacking in real time with moving vehicle, not sure if Tesla computer/programmers are capable of that). USS is a very simple analog technology with solid physics behind it and replacing it with eyeballing algorithms, which require compute power of image processing just does not make any sense from engineering point of view. And the current delta between promise and reality is just too big to believe that promises will ever come to fruition.

USS has to have an active signal source because its design depends on it. Tesla Vision does not need its own light source because it uses existing light sources. Tesla Vision could be further enhanced with supplemental lighting, possibly taking advantage of matrix lights. In other words, Tesla Vision's limitation is the same as those of human eyes - which seems to be able to drive both day and night just fine so long as the lighting conditions are adequate. However, under no circumstance is USS or Radar capable of helping someone drive down the road blindfolded. Tesla Vision is a generalized solution that should be able to do everything that human drivers can do. USS is a tool that was good at one particular thing but is rather limited.

Humans drive with vision only. The entire system of roads and streets is built and designed for this with street markings, signs, and signals. Our roads are not made to be driven with ultrasound or radar. However attractive these tools may be by being better in the interim for solving some specific problems, they are an incomplete solution and are not needed. It is a perfectly rational engineering decision to pursue vision-only driving capabilities.

 

[gx9901]

Took delivery of 2023 MYLR on February 3rd of this year. Put 2500 miles on the car so far, it is a shared ride between me and my wife. Our ICE vehicle (Volvo XC90 2018) is only used when we need both to be at different locations at the same time. We also drive Volvo in the snow, MYLR is no match to it, feels unsafe (stock tires). And we also pick Volvo for long trips - the ride and seats are way more comfortable.

Does your impression of the comfort in the MY come from the driver's perspective or passenger perspective? I agree that the MY has a pretty stiff ride, but as a driver I have felt pretty comfortable on the longest trip I've gone in my '21 MYP, which was about 200 miles from Minnesota to Iowa. I've driven the same trip in a '22 Audi fat etron and I found it to be slightly less comfortable, primarily because I found the seats to be less comfortable for some reason. The fat etron obviously has the better ride, but that didn't really come into play as the highways were fairly smooth for the most part. I've never really been a passenger in the MYP so I'm not sure how uncomfortable it is from that perspective. I will have the front passenger perspective soon enough though, as I just started letting my daughter practice driving in my car this week.

Two things I really miss on MY are the functional legacy automaker type parking assist with USS and the blind spot monitor in the mirrors. If these two things were implemented the choice for MY would be perfect.

While I've never really trusted the USS on my car without also seeing the surroundings with my own eyes (not specific to my car, I just never really trust the USS beeps in any car), I do agree that Tesla should not have removed the USS before achieving feature parity with vision. Seeing some videos on the vision based system, I think it will probably be good enough at some point for someone like me who will always only use it as a supplement to my own eyes. For someone who expects it to be really accurate I think it's unlikely to ever get good enough. But we shall see.

As for the blind spot system in the Tesla, I may be in a very small minority, but if you gave me a choice of having those side view mirror blind spot indicators or the current Tesla system (FSD-realization & blindspot video), I'd take Tesla's system. It's probably because I'm so used to it in my MYP, but the 3 other cars I have access to driving all have sideview mirror indicators, and I find myself rarely even look at that indicator (I look at the reflection in the mirror and turn my head). And sometimes I find myself glancing at the center screen when changing lanes in those cars because I'm so used to seeing the video of the blind spot there in my car. I suppose Hyundai's system, which has both video and mirror indicator, would probably be the best.

 

[gt2690b]

Nothing wrong with a Model Y. It is a fantastic vehicle, which is why it is on my shortlist. I wouldn't even attempt a road trip in a non-Tesla EV either.

I just feel the main pro's of a Y isn't as important as something like comfort for road tripping. The seats are great but the suspension is harsh. Where I am SC costs are not much off from gas costs so if I had the choice, a luxury SUV would be better IMO for this use case. As an overall vehicle for my use case I would have the Model Y.

even with SC costs you get the first "tank" for presumably a much cheaper rate.. combine that with free destination charging and you're likely only paying for 1 or 2 SC "tanks"

i've found i can save several hundred dollars on long road trips just by taking the Y vs. an ICE that gets 20 mpg'ish even with high SC prices

 

[Palisandr]

even with SC costs you get the first "tank" for presumably a much cheaper rate.. combine that with free destination charging and you're likely only paying for 1 or 2 SC "tanks"

i've found i can save several hundred dollars on long road trips just by taking the Y vs. an ICE that gets 20 mpg'ish even with high SC prices

Yes, economics of Tesla MY vs comparably costing ICE is certainly more favourable. Gas prices apart, don't forget maintenance costs. Volvo still charges for software updates, probably the rest of the premium europeans do too.

 

[Spuzzz]

Disclaimer - I still think that we did the right move by buying the car when it was discounted and became eligible for the tax rebate.

Took delivery of 2023 MYLR on February 3rd of this year. Put 2500 miles on the car so far, it is a shared ride between me and my wife. Our ICE vehicle (Volvo XC90 2018) is only used when we need both to be at different locations at the same time. We also drive Volvo in the snow, MYLR is no match to it, feels unsafe (stock tires). And we also pick Volvo for long trips - the ride and seats are way more comfortable.

Two things I really miss on MY are the functional legacy automaker type parking assist with USS and the blind spot monitor in the mirrors. If these two things were implemented the choice for MY would be perfect.

As per Tesla vision replacing USS - this is an utterly false narrative - the frequency at which USS operates is way lower than the light frequency, therefore making it much more reliable than the Tesla vision for distance measurement. Physics and the current hardware just doesn't seem to support current Tesla's vision paradigm.

Can’t believe how many people mourn USS. I have a 2022 and they have them but I am almost completely unaware that I do. Not super useful imo.