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am part of the class action against VW.

I couldn't see that the few quid they suggested I might get was going to do anything other than make the lawyers rich, and although I am usually strong on Right I'm afraid I did't bother this time. Haven't lost any opportunity to foul-mouth them, and no one in my immediate family will every buy anything from their stable, ever again.

All already sorted out in USA, years ago. SHAME is the cry, I think.
 
I wonder how many people will return them?

Didn't Ford do a campaign like that? "If you find it doesn't fit in your garage" or something like that ... I wonder how many were actually returned.

Well if I paid over £40k for a car I'd go over it with a magnifying glass. In fact I'll do that for a £33k car as well. Paint better be perfect, glass, fit and finish, leather etc.

What it really depends on is how many people will reject and how many will wait to see if Tesla can fix it, or just put up with the defects.
 
First post - bear with me! I reserved back in early 2017 and am at the point of ordering. I could buy outright but am thinking PCP as a) a hedge against any future financial issues at Tesla and b) allows some flexibility given the rate of change of EV development - I'd like the 'Y' at some point.

I'll be frank in saying I don't know much about PCP other than it's popular. What are the key advantages and where to start looking please? Is it considered to be a decent financial option versus outright purchase please?

Cheers

It took me years (of watching others with PCP) to work out the gotcha. It always seemed far too good to be true, which means there is a trick somewhere. Turns out its at car swap time - you don't have an asset to trade in. So unless you have been saving for a down payment in addition to your PCP payments, round 2 is going to be much more painful than round one. At least that's my take.

Avendit
 
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It took me years (of watching others with PCP) to work out the gotcha. It always seemed far too good to be true, which means there is a trick somewhere. Turns out its at car swap time - you don't have an asset to trade in. So unless you have been saving for a down payment in addition to your PCP payments, round 2 is going to be much more painful than round one. At least that's my take.

Avendit
Indeed! The more I look the more I realise that it's not the panacea it might seem. I'm back to thinking outright purchase will ultimately be the best route for me.

Cheers
 
They are not making this the easy no brainer decision I had hoped for :( (they = combination of government & Tesla). Perhaps someone can help me with this.

Current situation: Looking to swap my 44k miles, 2l petrol 2011 Seat Leon, which is wholly owned, chipped to 250bhp and in good nick. For ease of reference, its basically a curvy Golf GTi. Its our primary long distance car, and we also have a 4yo Suzuki Swift for city driving. We only do about 8-10k miles a year in the Leon, but when we do go in it, its often loaded with a roofbox and either towing a small boat, or with bikes on a towball mounted bike rack. It's getting on and some problems are starting to show, worst of which will likely lead to a clutch needing replaced at some point in the future, and the wheels seem to be getting harder to balance each time I swap between winter and summer tyres.

We are based in Edinburgh, and most miles are done up and down to Inverness (163 miles of potentially pretty nasty weather), beyond that to Ullapool, and down to the Skipton area. The Inverness trip is of particular concern as I don't think that in the winter or on a windy day the SR+ will make it without a stop for a charge (checked via a better route planner), the other ones we would be stopping any way, and going south there are more superchargers.

So looking at LR, or RWD LR, which is potentially £49k worth of car, without FSD. Guessing £45k for RWD LR, waiting to hear if its available.

I had convinced myself at around £40k this is all fine, paying to access the future, save the planet etc. But,
  • no towball (I think it needs to be in place when you buy the car so your VIN plate gets the approval stamp),
  • no hatch back (this will be my first car since my first 1.0 corsa I had at Uni that I can't get a fridge, or a rubble sack of gardening waste in)
  • it doesn't even save me much as we don't do enough miles (checked actual data and I spend £1000 on petrol in the last year),
  • tax is MORE than my current fossil burner
  • servicing will save some, but I'm not clear on what the M3 reqs are other than 'not yearly'? Looks like brake fluid every 3 years and a battery coolant every ????
These are all somewhat addressable (could put a towball on the swift which would uncomfortably address some scenarios, the total luggage space is bigger, so could drop the roof box possibly and put bikes on the roof [urg, the range hit on that one!], live without the hatch, money is just money for fuel and tax etc). But these seem like a hell of a lot of compromises for a £50k car!

Please help me justify this - I really want an M3, but am having a hard time selling it to myself after seeing the prices this morning. What am I missing?

Avendit

Just to come back about this after an evening of cooling off I had a couple of new thoughts which I thought worth updating. As you may have been able to tell, I was pretty peeved after having a reservation down for 2 years at not feeling OK to pull the trigger yesterday. But some of my thinking may have been out.
  1. Its price is high, but not beyond the competition. I thought the competition was all £35-40k, but I priced a similar A4 and it was within £200 of the LR DM. BMW is cheaper (possibly better, but only 2WD) but uggly as sin these days. Never really cared for a Merc. Go down a size (Leon/A3/1 series etc) and you have a stark choice between 'able to tow' at 150BHP or 'I actually want to own this' at 300BHP - no in between option. And even an S3 is almost £40k.
  2. Inflation. I was not accounting for this at all - in current money the Leon would be a £30k+ purchase, when in my head I had really been *cough* slightly rounding down in my memory *cough* to £20k.
  3. Other than itchy trigger finger, there is no imperative to purchase now.
  4. And thanks to the others for suggesting an MS, but its just too big, and the approved second hand options just now are really not appealing (or cheaper).
So, given all that the obvious answer is I have to get over my hangup on the price - it isn't as unreasonable as I first thought it (but still damn them for the 20% surprise). And then wait for the type approval for towing to come. If we are lucky it will be with the intro of LR RWD or MR, if not, I'll just have to buy the DM (which is the one I really wanted all along but am struggling to justify).

Thanks again all,
Avendit
 
On some vehicles PCP deals can absolutely make sense. Due to heavy dealership and other incentives. My Jaguar I-PACE, for example, is ~£400 /mo with no deposit. And that's a vehicle that would cost ~£64,000 to buy.

Tesla doesn't have dealerships and don't do such heavy discounting. Any discount you'll get from them will be because a car has been lightly used (showroom models, demonstrators etc.) So PCP deals aren't as attractive as buying the car, although the route is certainly more accessible to many.

The best thing to do if you have some but not all of the money to buy, is to go part cash and part low interest loan. Sainsbury's bank will do say 2.9% APR on up to £25,000. Much better interest rates than Tesla will give you on HP (or PCP). Makes the most sense if you plan to keep the car for a while and you actually have the funds available to cover the rest. If you don't and I appreciate this will apply to many people, that's where PCP, HP with Tesla or PCH through a leasing company would be the only viable option. Or waiting and buying used.
 
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Those on Scotland can also apply for an interest free loan of up to £35k, maybe. Details are scant and need to be investigated by phone via the energy saving trust, which I haven't done. 0% finance on a car loan is a good feeling.
 
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Fleetprices, 18 month deal. Was October last year when it had to be ordered, just took delivery in April. There's a thread about it and some similar deals over on the SpeakEV forums. It only includes 5000 miles per year as well. The current deals are nowhere near as good, unfortunately. I was very lucky.
 
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How on earth would Jaguar do am I-pace without a deposit for £400 p/m?! I can’t believe that for a second.

They aint selling well. Seems astonishing to me, lovely car, luxury build (important to some), better road holding than MS/MX, haven't driven M3 to know about that), early to market so no competition (Tesla apart and eTron :rolleyes: ), bit less range than Tesla, poor 3rd party rapid-charging (absolutely dreadful in UK; across EU it is reasonably good)

Read the iPace forums and lots of bugs. Read the Tesla forums you'll form the same opinion ...so probably "evens" on that.
 
This must have been mentioned, but I don't remember reading it, sorry if I'm just being an old fart ... again ...

Some people are unhappy about the price, compared to expectation.

Since original launch Tesla has now bundled AutoPilot, previously a £5,000 option ... so there is that. No help if you don't want it, of course, but flip-side: it might well be the thing that keeps you alive. 50% fewer accidents than non-AP (that's just Tesla cars, not national-average)
 
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This must have been mentioned, but I don't remember reading it, sorry if I'm just being an old fart ... again ...

Some people are unhappy about the price, compared to expectation.

Since original launch Tesla has now bundled AutoPilot, previously a £5,000 option ... so there is that. No help if you don't want it, of course, but flip-side: it might well be the thing that keeps you alive. 50% fewer accidents than non-AP (that's just Tesla cars, not national-average)

I thought the 'safety features' were always on? Or do you mean AP miles are safer than self driven miles?
 
do you mean AP miles are safer than self driven miles?

Yes, that - I should have said "AP Miles", thanks. So if you own AP (included now of course) and IF you are using it then you might avoid an accident that you would otherwise have had driving manually. my 2p is that I don't care if ME or AP sees the problem, the two of us are better than me solo.

Not all safety features are always on (although definition of "safety features" may be splitting hairs). Side Incursion (car steering away from someone encroaching into your lane) is only on with AP, as is automatic braking when car two-in-front emergency-brakes (I think you only get warning alert if driving manually). Similar for driving through a Red light, changing lanes with something in your blind spot ... not all yet available in UK but all part of "coming soon" FSD type things that may well keep drivers safer, if they are driving on AP at the time.
 
I believe that deal was available for a while, but isn't now.

The USA iPace forum has had a fair bit of chatter about really good discount deals. They come and go, as you say, but perhaps it is old stock just prior to new Model Year

I've formed the opinion iPace aren't selling all that well, which I think is a huge pity, I can't find anything wrong with it for anyone not needing frequent rapid charging.
 
Generally, you look at AP miles vs. all other car miles. AP wins.

That's why it's dubious. AP is only supposed to be used on highways which are safer than other types of roads anyway, so comparing AP miles to all other miles is clearly flawed.

Unfortunately Tesla has not published enough information to do a proper comparison.