[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[Skie]

I always had the same location trigger a collision alert, presumably caused by it being a bit downhill with overhanging trees.

When the vision only update rolled out, it stopped it entirely. Can’t say I’ve had any other random collision alerts other than where you would expect them when they used to be fairly regular.

 

[Whyone]

Who does?

Anyone considering suing a large multinational company and/or commenting on suing said company on public forums you'd hope .....

 

[Zilla91]

Anyone considering suing a large multinational company and/or commenting on suing said company on public forums you'd hope .....

If everyone read them and took them at face value no one would ever take these companies to court

 

[Whyone]

If everyone read them and took them at face value no one would ever take these companies to court

The internet sets the bar pretty low, but that is one of the most idiotic things I've read in an awful long time.

 

[Zilla91]

The internet sets the bar pretty low, but that is one of the most idiotic things I've read in an awful long time.

Sounds like you lead a pretty sheltered life if that passes as one of the most idiotic thing you’ve read

 

[Whyone]

Sounds like you lead a pretty sheltered life if that passes as one of the most idiotic thing you’ve read

I've spent a lot of time with legals in and around the High Courts which gives a certain perspective on that comment.

 

[Artiste]

@boombap, I'm intrigued to find out what you disagree with in my post above, since most is just reporting what happened to me, and asking how what Tesla's agent told me fits in with the experience of other owners. Are you disagreeing with something I'm saying or something the Tesla agent told me?

There are some zealots who just can’t tolerate any criticism of their beloved Tesla, however much that criticism is deserved. I always find it slightly bizarre. They clearly can’t cope with any opinion which contradicts their own rather blinkered viewpoint.

 

[Boza]

Yes. Same here.



A system reboot probably triggered by Tesla support while I was supercharging seemed to allow Premium to start working without upgrade.



I think that makes perfect sense.

Doesn't really help in terms of understanding what specific updates are doing though. For now I'm happy sticking with a version that I am familiar with. For me a move to single stack in the hope that it brings with it a general improvement in many ap and driver assist areas would be worth taking a risk (that something regressed) to install.

From someone who was tricked twice - by V11 and disabling the radar - stay on your version. The only AP difference I can see is that the car does phantom brakes under different conditions. I think AP is more susceptible to unavailable camera but not ready to claim that yet.
On the other hand, given to sorry state of auto high beams and auto wipers (mandatory when AP is engaged), I pretty much stopped using AP.
Unless you really want something from the updates don’t downgrade to VO version.

 

[qwickshot]

From someone who was tricked twice - by V11 and disabling the radar - stay on your version. The only AP difference I can see is that the car does phantom brakes under different conditions. I think AP is more susceptible to unavailable camera but not ready to claim that yet.
On the other hand, given to sorry state of auto high beams and auto wipers (mandatory when AP is engaged), I pretty much stopped using AP.
Unless you really want something from the updates don’t downgrade to VO version.

Shame, your experience is completely contradictory to my own.

Auto high beam is 98% fixed, it now just needs to not come on when there are street lamps but otherwise it’s as good as it gets.

Auto wipers have always worked as needed.

Auto pilot performs better than it did with radar. ‘Phantom breaking’ was already a very rare occurrence. It never does it for bridges, trees or trucks or anything like that any more. It’s mainly just now where the road curves round to the right with a lay-by on the side in the same place at just the right angle so it looks like the vehicle parked there is directly in front of you. That also used to happen on radar and it’s super easy to predict with a light press on the accelerator and the car ignores it.

Have you tried recalibrating your cameras?

 

[roadcred]

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...

www.tesla.com

That removes most the features from Enhanced AutoPilot for the near future!

View attachment 861248

Should this thread not be renamed TESLA LACK OF VISION?

 

[MrBadger]

Auto high beam is 98% fixed, it now just needs to not come on when there are street lamps but otherwise it’s as good as it gets.

How long does it take to come back on again though?

I've seen someone saying that its near perfect but mention 5 seconds to come back on in the same post. That may be fine for straight roads, but for roads with many bends, my experience it that even counting to 2 or 3 (I can count time pretty accurately so take this as 2 or 3 seconds) as previously experienced is far too long to be acceptable for the high beam to come back on - common scenario is driving towards a bend with car coming towards you, lights dip fine, but don't come back on before you are having to see for the corner.

I've also had lights not dipping for an oncoming motorcycle (I've had a few experiences of poor handling of motorcycles in various scenarios with TV, one where I was convinced that had I not intervened the car would have driven right into the back of them) having just entered a village with streetlights - manual intervention needed. Both those scenarios, plus not using high beam in lit up areas need to be fixed before it can be described as fit for purpose IMHO.

I'm still on 2022.36.x, and must admit that I have been flashed a couple of times that I had never been previously. Not sure if its because AHB now being used in more circumstances (due to new defaults) where I would not have used it before, or something has changed.

 

[qwickshot]

How long does it take to come back on again though?

I've seen someone saying that its near perfect but mention 5 seconds to come back on in the same post. That may be fine for straight roads, but for roads with many bends, my experience it that even counting to 2 or 3 (I can count time pretty accurately so take this as 2 or 3 seconds) as previously experienced is far too long to be acceptable for the high beam to come back on - common scenario is driving towards a bend with car coming towards you, lights dip fine, but don't come back on before you are having to see for the corner.

In my view, you get more problems than you solve with the lights coming back on right away, if anything sometimes the few seconds is too short.

For example when you are following another car down a winding road but you are not right up it’s chuff (as you shouldn’t be), as the car disappears around the corner or into a dip in the road, the highbeams kick on, as you do round the bend or into the dip off, on off on off on off, you get the gist. That would be incredibly annoying for the car in front of you being constantly flashed.

Likewise if you are approaching a corner and you can’t get round it without high beams, you are probably going too fast for the conditions.

 

[MrBadger]

For example when you are following another car down a winding road but you are not right up it’s chuff (as you shouldn’t be), as the car disappears around the corner or into a dip in the road, the highbeams kick on, as you do round the bend or into the dip off, on off on off on off, you get the gist. That would be incredibly annoying for the car in front of you being constantly flashed.

This is a very different situation from lights dipping due to oncoming traffic and AHB should be able to cope properly with both scenarios and I think does cope with your scenario, but not the one with oncoming vehicles.

Likewise if you are approaching a corner and you can’t get round it without high beams, you are probably going too fast for the conditions.

Its nothing to do with speed of the corners, its to do with your eyes being accustomed to driving in the dark, then retina being shut down to bright oncoming lights. High beam coming back on gives time for eyes to become more quickly accustomed to the dark again. Its perfectly safe to take the corner at the road speed, regardless of high beam or not, but its the transition period when you have been potentially dazzled by oncoming lights that a bit of extra help from high beam would make things better. Under normal situations, the corners would be perfectly safe to take high beam or otherwise.

 

[Obie]

Just watched a walk around video of the Volvo EX90 by Out of Spec Reviews. Said it has 8 cameras, 1 Lidar, 5 Radar and 16 USS so clearly not going down the Tesla route. The Lidar on the roof does make it look a bit like a Taxi but a price worth paying if it works.

 

[Zilla91]

Function over style

 

[Boza]

Shame, your experience is completely contradictory to my own.

Auto high beam is 98% fixed, it now just needs to not come on when there are street lamps but otherwise it’s as good as it gets.

Auto wipers have always worked as needed.

Auto pilot performs better than it did with radar. ‘Phantom breaking’ was already a very rare occurrence. It never does it for bridges, trees or trucks or anything like that any more. It’s mainly just now where the road curves round to the right with a lay-by on the side in the same place at just the right angle so it looks like the vehicle parked there is directly in front of you. That also used to happen on radar and it’s super easy to predict with a light press on the accelerator and the car ignores it.

Have you tried recalibrating your cameras?

Yes, many times. AHB most of the time ignores motorcycles. Sometimes it is slow to react to oncoming traffic; in other times it flashes the road signs and the moon. AW are completely random (no, I do not have RainX or anything like that) - going crazy on a sunny day or in light mist. As if they try to keep the windshield squeaky clean all the time.

I am not sure how much of that experience variability is due to different human expectations and how much due to system errors/bad design. It is scary if it is mostly the latter.

 

[cliff harris]

Just watched a walk around video of the Volvo EX90 by Out of Spec Reviews. Said it has 8 cameras, 1 Lidar, 5 Radar and 16 USS so clearly not going down the Tesla route. The Lidar on the roof does make it look a bit like a Taxi but a price worth paying if it works.

That sounds like a company with no idea what they are doing, who had very persuasive sales people from lidar radar and USS suppliers pay them a visit. What do they intend to do when they have 3 different types of sensor all disagreeing?
We think phantom breaking is a pain, wait until the cameras say go, the radar says slow down, the USS says STOP! happening multiple times a second.

I know teslavision isn't 'there' yet, but IMHO it is the most sensible route. The only sensor suite we KNOW enabled human level driving, is human sensors. ears and eyes.

Tesla have the balls to go all-in on the system they think will provide full autonomy. It sounds like volvo want to add whatever sensors its customers think sound advanced.

 

[Boza]

“Sensors disagreement” is a red herring. The aerospace, for example, has been dealing with that “problem” for decades.

 

[James-R10]

“Sensors disagreement” is a red herring. The aerospace, for example, has been dealing with that “problem” for decades.

Aerospace is a lot easier and primarily radar only.

 

[CWT3LR]

Function over style

I would take either from Tesla.