disagree
hos epi to polu
Ah, got it now! Sorry. Now I see what you meant.
I'm waiting on ordering an X, and I can't imagine at this stage that the demand will change radically.
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Unveiling on Oct 17th
- Thread starter JeffK
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I'm waiting on ordering an X, and I can't imagine at this stage that the demand will change radically.
I think at this point worst case scenario would be a hardware upgrade after you've had it for awhile. They clearly have a very good idea of what is needed if it's not done yet.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Ive been to some FoxConn facilities. western media give them a bad rep. They are much nicer places to work than most Chinese factories.
larmor
Active Member
And if the car was named Tay, after a microsoft update...You'd prefer Microsoft?
Twitter taught Microsoft’s friendly AI chatbot to be a racist asshole in less than a day
BluestarE3
Active Member
Do most of these factories likewise have suicide nets?
Just wondering if it's the industry norm there.
Those dorms with bars look like my high end apartment (300 square feet 2 bedroom highrise with communual swimming pool, badmitton courts and gardens), all apartments in china have bars like that. The factories look nothing like they suggest
inside foxconn - Google Search
I'm no champion of Apple and Im thrilled about the google pixel (I imagine FoxConn makes that as well though). People go through hard times in life and when you have 200,000 employees one is bound to commit suicide, and when one makes international media attention you get copycats. I remember when digrustled people started attacking kindergartens with knives, killed a number of children.
I'm a socialist and believe everyone deserves equal treatment. But I spent more than 7 years living in China working with factories (where I had friends on the assembly floor), foxconn is not even on my list of companies that need to be regulated better as far as how they treat their employees, they're probably one of the best.
And before you comment about how my living situation was much better than a Chinese factory worker (which it was), the culture in china is very different. Factory workers minimize their expenses and take money back to their hometowns and invest in housing for their parents and their children. They couldn't have afforded to live like I did, but they also chose not to find that middle ground before they are far better at saving money than we are.
Arguably if american factories supplied housing for their employees so that they could get on their feet and save money it would be a far better system. Is either way right? IMO no, but Im a socialist who wants everyone to benefit more than the way our current economic system allows.
I had a friend who was a waitress in a bar (bar also supplied housing for her, could you imagine a bar in america supplying housing for a waitress in the united states?) that I frequented and she saved up the money to open a bakery back in her very poor hometown. And still returned to the bar to work there, letting her parents run the business she funded and take care of her child. Not China isn't perfect, its far from it. Their wealth disparity is frightening, but there are also things about the way they do things that we could learn from. A factory worker in China could work for years collecting salary and pocket it all. In america you have to make a ton of money just to survive.
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Ulmo
Active Member
So, I have to consider that both sides of this might be exaggerating.
I certainly know how Apple treated me while building their new circular building in Cupertino (which is good in architecture): horribly. They discriminated against me on the basis of race and sex, preferring to have others with a foreign across-the-bay culture commute for hours that fit Apple's special profile (much to the imported workers' chagrin, since they had to commute so far, but some of them seemed appreciative to have work), and imported a bunch of very unsafe workers from other states that all seemed to want to smoke all over the place and break every safety rule. While I traced some of that to just the high amount of work available in the region and the lack of maturity in the newfangled workforce (mostly older people but newly minted, so to speak), it also came from a culture of administration that allowed it.
In my example of my experience, I realized I'm not a very good worker in a high pressure crappy Apple environment*, and different opportunities exist for different people, but I can certainly believe for the examples of the Chinese experience that the truth lies somewhere in between the various exaggerations thrown out there in the above stories about Chinese workers. Those photos of the pink workers could have been worse than most of what goes on, and those photos of the workers in nice office buildings could be better than most of what goes on, or either or both of them could be misrepresentation or accurate to some degree.
As always, life is what each individual makes of it, what they accept, and what they won't accept in terms of being walked all over (or in the case of Tianamen Square, crushed by tank).
* I took a half year vacation after that mistreatment, and collected my thoughts for a while, and tried to heal the parts of my body that weren't permanently damaged. I was lucky to have savings available to do this; in the past, I didn't always have that opportunity. During the later parts of this vacation, everyone around me remarked about how nice, worldly, mature and well put together I was, and I scored better than my par on personal matters. I'm sorry, but that was entirely just good rest and money, and not being worn out (plus any superior real growth I had due to actual higher resources and proper self-treatment).
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This being teslamotorsclub forum I dont think its the best place for this conversation. However I find your comments interesting and worth discussing. You can find me on twitter @gurkuss.
All that being said. You didn't have an issue with Apple as a corporation (not endorsing their corporate doctrine nore am I condemning it) . You had an issue with some apple employees (individuals), or more likely you had an issue with the contractor(some random asshole apple hire to manage construction, they aren't a construction company, they dont have people on salary for that) that apple hired for the new campus.
The reality in the end though is, whatever capacity you were working in you were making enough to take 6 months off and not end up on the streets. So you weren't so bad off (not rolling in cash either, but still, you could afford 6 months off mental recovery, the vast majority of the world cant afford 24 hours), especially considering cost of living out there. Ill hazard a guess based on your comments that you are a female and a minority, and likely were dealing with a white male who was a dicktard/egotard. I apologize on behalf of my stereotype.
*on the note of Tianamen. Benefits of he Chinese political system is that after Mao left they had a very progressive leader (Deng Xiao Ping) who reinvented China. Drawback being now they have Xi Jing Ping who scares the hell out of me.
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Ulmo
Active Member
Link to Google? Now you got my attention:
- Elon as Tesla CEO used to be against Big Data for computer driving processing, because he was wed to stupid Mobile Eye who wanted to do things wrong (and was anti-big data). Obviously, Elon is now pro-big data (and has been bragging about it). Google has always been pro-big data for computer driving processing. This is therefore an improved compatibility between their approaches over before.
- Elon as Tesla CEO used to be against LIDAR, because of various problems, including its sensory limitations and its cost. This hasn't changed, but it puts into light why he wasn't interested in the Google methods. I think this was fed from his marriage with Mobile Eye, too. Also, it made him seek out other methods that work well.
- Tesla figured out how to use less expensive radar in a more thorough, accurate and useful computer driving processing role. Google may be interested in this, and this may be of value in some type of negotiation of shared resources.
- Now that the no-good Mobile Eye garbage relationship has been thrown out, it is no longer hindering a partnership between Google and Tesla sharing their respective strengths in computer driving processing.
I put my probability of this below some of the other guesses I have, but higher than some of my other guesses.
While your guess wasn't right at all, I'll point out that I think the only people that really were the root cause of all the resultant problems were the upper-level management that set a tone for behavior by everyone at the site, and that they had their marching orders from the customer (Apple). I believe the marching orders were the type of over simplistic orders that can only cause problems, and they were faithfully executed, and the results were suboptimal. My point isn't to demonize Apple, but to point out that in huge organizations that use "cost" as an excuse to give up a bunch of other standards, and get blamed for the mess that that creates, and tries to micro-manage and band-aid that mess, they end up with that mess + more problems. It's a symptom of central management that on the one hand wants to be blind to outcome and on the other hand wants to mandate outcome without understanding the relationship between those opposing approaches. Come to think of it, my point is off-topic. Sorry.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
DGW222
Closed
I'm late to this thread because I initially posted this under the Elon Musk thread ....
What will Elon Musk reveal on Monday (10/17)? I have a guess but I've not exactly batted a thousand, not even close. I was thinking maybe a hatchback version of the Model 3 but then I remembered Musk saying Tesla would not have to raise any additional funds in Q4. I think Tesla/Musk may have found someone with very deep pockets (like a Google or an Apple) to buy into Tesla. Maybe not BUY Tesla outright as in take it over but become Tesla's "bank". Been wrong before on these things but we'll see Monday. Any thoughts on what else it might be?
What will Elon Musk reveal on Monday (10/17)? I have a guess but I've not exactly batted a thousand, not even close. I was thinking maybe a hatchback version of the Model 3 but then I remembered Musk saying Tesla would not have to raise any additional funds in Q4. I think Tesla/Musk may have found someone with very deep pockets (like a Google or an Apple) to buy into Tesla. Maybe not BUY Tesla outright as in take it over but become Tesla's "bank". Been wrong before on these things but we'll see Monday. Any thoughts on what else it might be?
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Super_Popular
Well-Known Member
Tesla can keep making product announcements all they want but what they need to focus on is more service centers and faster response times. 30 days minimum at my local service center.....not cool.
I am hoping for an earlier than expected S/X with 120kWh from 2170's. It's been heavily implied by JB Straubbel, +40% in battery density over the 2012 Model S.
85 * 1.4 = 119.
And with a 10% more dense cell dimensionally, plus newly developed chemistry (+10%), you're there, 119kWh.
But lest not forget that 2170's fit upright, like 18650, in the same batteryhousing. So really there is 70/65 = 108% the volume usage.
Tesla may not even need the new chemistry to make a 120kWh pack. Or, the largest pack may bump to 130kWh overnight. At the same manufacturing cost. Split the benefit with the customer, and everyone gets a cheaper better car, with Tesla making more margin on an already really high margin car.
A 100D (from 18650's) would be a minor update (really a downgrade), just a bit early if ready to ship this year.
Really I'd like them to offer a hypermiler that has a longer gear ratio on a single rear motor layout, eclipsing the range a D layout would manage, in part due to weight saving, and in part due to a 4 years optimized rear motor. Say, a Model 3 motor, in beta of sorts. No need for 300kW output, a hypermiler will be more than happy with 200kWh. It's all about reducing consumption at 50-80mph. If the D does that using mostly the smaller front motor, why use the rear at all? Stick the small one in the back, add cargo space, most would be happy. Voilá, a 360 mile car, say at the price of a currrent -90-.
Don't get me started on a 120-130kWh non-D car with updated drivetrain for slight improved consumption.
Even a PL version that utilized (if at all possible with this tech) higher output power from the battery. Even quicker 0-60, really? Unless motors are built that don't heat as quickly, 1/4 times will not improve toooo much if at all.
85 * 1.4 = 119.
And with a 10% more dense cell dimensionally, plus newly developed chemistry (+10%), you're there, 119kWh.
But lest not forget that 2170's fit upright, like 18650, in the same batteryhousing. So really there is 70/65 = 108% the volume usage.
Tesla may not even need the new chemistry to make a 120kWh pack. Or, the largest pack may bump to 130kWh overnight. At the same manufacturing cost. Split the benefit with the customer, and everyone gets a cheaper better car, with Tesla making more margin on an already really high margin car.
A 100D (from 18650's) would be a minor update (really a downgrade), just a bit early if ready to ship this year.
Really I'd like them to offer a hypermiler that has a longer gear ratio on a single rear motor layout, eclipsing the range a D layout would manage, in part due to weight saving, and in part due to a 4 years optimized rear motor. Say, a Model 3 motor, in beta of sorts. No need for 300kW output, a hypermiler will be more than happy with 200kWh. It's all about reducing consumption at 50-80mph. If the D does that using mostly the smaller front motor, why use the rear at all? Stick the small one in the back, add cargo space, most would be happy. Voilá, a 360 mile car, say at the price of a currrent -90-.
Don't get me started on a 120-130kWh non-D car with updated drivetrain for slight improved consumption.
Even a PL version that utilized (if at all possible with this tech) higher output power from the battery. Even quicker 0-60, really? Unless motors are built that don't heat as quickly, 1/4 times will not improve toooo much if at all.
