Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[MartinAustin]

Phew, what a thread! My comments:

I never took Jim Chen's comment about towing capacity as gospel. Tesla communication is bad, but not that bad. He is the legal guy. We should be getting confirmation about towing capacity from Ricardo, Elon or the web site before believing it. If you took Jim Chen's comment as the truth, that is unfortunate. Yes, the towing capacity is unremarkable, but that has never stopped other SUVs that also have unremarkable towing capacity from selling.

Keep in mind that the Model X is available with 2 seating options.
You should be able to load long items if you select the option without the middle seat in the second row. View attachment 96465

This! If I were to order a Model X, which I'm not, I would get the six-seater configuration. Coupled with folding down one of the rear seats, you can still accommodate 5 occupants and some pretty long objects, or 4 occupants (nobody in the front passenger seat) and some really long objects. I concede, this does not mitigate everyone's configuration problems.

I am not sure Tesla will ever offer a folding middle seat solution. This is sad, but I can't figure out how they could do it while ensuring decent access to the 3rd row. (You would have to clamber over the folded seat to get to it) I hope they are able to surprise us some time in the future, but I think Tesla had various options available for middle row seats, wanted the really nice ones, and had to think long and hard about the demographics of the buyers before eliminating the folding capability.

There is a possibility that Tesla have a folding seat option waiting to reveal, but it has been held up by supplier issues. It's possible that Founders cars automatically came with the six- or seven-seat option and no folding seats, because they are able to talk directly and confidentially to the founders. There are a number of Signature reservation holders who would want folding seats (including AIMc), and they would be able to switch their configuration before production. This situation could be described as a complete mess, but I would take it over what we have now (no folding seats whatsoever).

I think I've read that cupholders are a bit more plentiful this time. But I've heard no mention of grab handles or coat hooks from people examining the car at the Launch Event. If "family practicality" is truly the focus of Tesla's Model X designers, these will be present and not conspicuous by their absence. A $100,000 SUV that does 0-60 in 3.2 and has nothing for passengers to hold on to, or hang their dry-cleaned business suits, is a bit weird.

 

[AlMc]

Road & Track Article

Relevant sentence:

"While the second-row seats don't fold down, they do motor forward and tilt to open up enough rear cargo space to carry sheets of plywood, two-by-fours, or even a surfboard, a Tesla engineer reassured us."

'Pictures or it did not happen' would have been my follow up question to the engineer. I am not an engineer but have been known to overload many a vehicle with materials for multiple DYI projects at home and work....I was at the reveal...IMO....no way. I will be the first to admit I was wrong IF I see this type of flat surface capacity 'in the flesh'.

Just curious Curt...Didyou make the reveal?

 

[scottf200]

Road & Track Article

Relevant sentence:

"While the second-row seats don't fold down, they do motor forward and tilt to open up enough rear cargo space to carry sheets of plywood, two-by-fours, or even a surfboard, a Tesla engineer reassured us."

I don't see that unless the plywood is angled up from the floor to above the drivers head. And even then 8'=96"!
Image: http://i.imgur.com/8YaKwNs.jpg

 

[Cottonwood]

I canceled Sig#87. They tell me that my check will arrive in 2-3 weeks.

No sour grapes here. The X would have replaced the Sig Red P85 with another Sig Red. I will still have the Tesla smile driving the P85!

Congratulations. All you Sig folks move up one step, and a Sig waiting list person just got their Sig. Enjoy!

The X is just not the right car for me. I really use my 2000 Jeep Cherokee as an off-road, utility vehicle. The X was never going to do that and I was going to keep the Jeep anyway. For example, the X will never be able to take a balloon trailer into a corn field, or get up to my solar panels. At least with the S around, the Jeep only gets a couple of thousand miles a year these days.

Not having the folding seats was just the straw that broke the camel's back in my decision. It's easier to put my bikes in the back of an S than the X; for me, that means the S wins.

If Tesla really wanted to make me happy, they would offer a 3.0 battery for my Roadster 1.5..... :wink:

 

[FlatSix911]

Lots of sour grapes here ... remember that the Model X is still the only BEV SUV available.
Everything else is a just a compromised ICE vehicle http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

Our definitions of 'sour grapes' appears to be very different.

I understand why you'd be upset, but you should admit that you're upset based on assumptions you made, not based on what was promised.
Certainly there was no legal guarantee of availability of any particular model or any particular delivery date. The Model X Reservation Agreement is clear on this.

"2. [..] This Agreement does not constitute an agreement for the sale of a Model X and does not lock in pricing, a production slot, or an estimated delivery date.
You are under no obligation to purchase a Model X from us, and we are under no obligation to supply you with a Model X or any other vehicle."
"7. [..] We will establish your reservation sequence position in our sole discretion."

There is still no indication that other cars will get ahead of you in the line just because of a more expensive trim.

If I had made the assumptions you did, I'd be disappointed as well.

The 70D is fully engineered and ready to go.
This is the same way the Model S came out.
The more expensive models first, then the next, and so on.

I am sorry you didn't see the history and were expecting a simultaneous release.

Not talking about Model X history, talking about Model S history. With Model S it was Sigs first, all 85. Then 85 kWh vehicles but had to have air suspension and MC Red wasn't available. The 60s and 40s were 3-4 months (if I remember correctly) after the initial production release deliveries.

Model X is simply following the same path and thus is no surprise to anyone who remembers what happened with the S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes

Making a false pretense to form a rationalization, i.e., not to care for something one wants,
but does not or cannot have (expression originated in "The Fox and the Grapes," one of Aesop's Fables)

 

[AlMc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes

Making a false pretense to form a rationalization, i.e., not to care for something one wants,
but does not or cannot have (expression originated in "The Fox and the Grapes," one of Aesop's Fables)

View attachment 96677

Got it. No false pretense here. Canceled because it did not have the utility capacity of the prototype when I was forced to configure or drop out. In addition, I will probably get an X IF (when?) TM decides to bring out a folding seat option. NO pretense/not going away. Just stating reasons for dropping back at this time.

 

[X-Wing]

Road & Track Article Relevant sentence:

While the second-row seats don't fold down, they do motor forward and tilt to open up enough rear cargo space to carry sheets of plywood, two-by-fours, or even a surfboard, a Tesla engineer tried to BS us.

Fixed that.

We already know the max cargo length is 60". An SUV that can't even carry a book case? Some utility that is.

Personally that's not a deal breaker for me, but I can fully understand and appreciate why some people decided to cancel.

 

[Phil Seastrand]

And I thought the width of the back entry was only 45" -- how is a 48" piece of plywood going to fit in that, especially when it has to lay flat to angle up the the ceiling?

 

[Johan]

For the first year after I got my Tesla, I proclaimed to everybody who'd listen: "I'll never get a car other than a Tesla again!".
For the second year, I proclaimed: "I'll never get a car other than an EV again!"

Today I drove into my driveway with my brand spanking new GMC Sierra Denali 2500 that will guzzle 15mpg of your finest diesel for the next 10 years.


This could (and should) have been a Model X - if only Tesla had either:

a) Delivered a Model X with a 10'000lbs tow capacity like promised
-or-
b) Not promised a 10'000lbs tow capacity originally, in which case I wouldn't have bought a travel trailer which required a 10'000lbs tow capacity in the first place.


I don't know why Tesla has to overpromise like this. The Model S is great and I would have bought it without the overpromises at that time (which there were plenty of as well). Tesla is like a teenager who can't stop lying about everything, even though there is no reason whatsoever to do so.

OMG I feel exactly the same way!

1) Honestly disappointed with some key things with the X, still very likely I'll be getting it since I managed impregnate my wife 3 times in less than 5 years and really need the bigger format. This all assumes pricing here isn't somehow exaggerated.

2) Why Tesla, why Elon, do you have to pretend to be even better when you're already the best by miles? In 2011-early 2014 I felt Tesla was all about "under promise- over deliver", then from later in 2014 to now it's been a lot of the opposite.

 

[Johan]

Also, they play wood goes across the 2nd row with both Falcon Wing Doors majestically unfolded as you're doing 90 mph down a desert highway.

 

[AlMc]

Also, they play wood goes across the 2nd row with both Falcon Wing Doors majestically unfolded as you're doing 90 mph down a desert highway.

That is how it fits. Thanks Johan...I knew it was just me:biggrin:

 

[mikevbf]

Also, they play wood goes across the 2nd row with both Falcon Wing Doors majestically unfolded as you're doing 90 mph down a desert highway.

A few after market alterations and we might have our first flying Tesla (not including the one that went off the cliff).

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Not sure how legit this is but, any of you early Sigs who haven't canceled yet can possibly work with this person, configure accordingly, take delivery and then sell to him/her if the price is right:

WANTED: Signature Model X before christmas

 

[MrBoylan]

Not sure how legit this is but, any of you early Sigs who haven't canceled yet can possibly work with this person, configure accordingly, take delivery and then sell to him/her if the price is right:

WANTED: Signature Model X before christmas

Same guy did the same thing in 2012 with the Model S.

Looking to buy a Model S Performance before christmas

Anyone know if he was able to get one then?

(p.s., I want to be on this guy's Christmas list... I mean as a recipient, not as a wanted item)

 

[ohmman]

Plywood comes in all sizes.

 

[engle]

The "emissions" are from the heating of the interior materials of the vehicle, not the engine. When getting into a hot car, you should always try to allow it to air out before entering, not just because of the heat, but the hazardous gasses from the plastic and finishes.

Thanks, BerTX, for educating me! TMC is really useful because of the diversity of educations, experiences and expertise of its members. I've learned (sponged) so much. I think my read-to-post ratio was something like 100-to-1 until the X finally launched.

I understand the Model S/X app has a setting where you can choose the temperature you would like at a given time. I guess with the X's filtration system, it just has to run for X minutes to filter the air to "almost hospital room quality". I wonder how long "X" is?

I've had black leather a couple times before, and it does heat up inside to quite a degree. This time, I'm going with either Tan, or the White, if it makes it to production? The white is really beautiful!

 

[ZachShahan]

Anecdotally, I recall it being much lower. Part of that could be attributed to the fact there were no viable alternatives at that time. With Model X Sig cancellations, at least as reported here, there seems to be a high correlation with people who already have a Model S to fall back to.

Also, while there are notable cancelations here it's only, what, 10 people? Out of 1200? Tesla probably already oversubscribed Sig X reservations, banking on some degree of cancellations.

Aside from a lot of people having a Model S to fall back on, there are simply a lot more reservation holders than with the S, which leaves plenty of room for more unhappy ones who cancel.

And, yes, Elon has said that reservations for the X jumped, and S sales were also boosted, following the launch. I hope and assume Tesla will listen closely to those who cancel and keep track of requests, but I don't think it is sweating too much about demand at this point.

 

[ZachShahan]

Of course this "history" you talk about is totally subjective. My recollection is that when the X was announced it was initially stated it would be available in both 60 and 85 battery options. Obviously that changed due to the advancement of battery technology and the long delay. Given that, I don't think it's unreasonable at all that people would have expected to have a choice of battery options when the X finally became available.

Wasn't a base price of ~$60,000 on the site for awhile?

- - - Updated - - -

X will have low range with 70D. If someone tries to tow with it saying Tesla said it has towing capacity and runs out of range mid way it will be bad publicity for Tesla. I think Tesla is waiting for improved cells manufacturing at Gigafactory so maybe it can make a 75D or 80D X with the same battery weight of 70 kwh pack.
One more reason-X is a marvel of engineering (my opinion) and took a lot of money and time to develop. Hence, Tesla would want to cash on the initial madness with premium version sales and when things cool down introduce the low margin base version. (My guess).

I agree with you on both. And think Elon's recent tweet "something like a 70" is indication that it will be a slightly bigger battery but they have to improve the batteries and bring down costs first.

 

[Curt Renz]

'Pictures or it did not happen' would have been my follow up question to the engineer. I am not an engineer but have been known to overload many a vehicle with materials for multiple DYI projects at home and work....I was at the reveal...IMO....no way. I will be the first to admit I was wrong IF I see this type of flat surface capacity 'in the flesh'.

Just curious Curt...Didyou make the reveal?

No, Al, I'm in Illinois. My advice is to go with whatever suits you. If an ICE SUV with folding second row seats is your preference, then stick with it. Meanwhile, the Model X has a long backlog of orders. Soccer moms were apparently the top priority, and I'm sure Tesla's research taught them what's most important to that demographic. Once much of the backlog has been drawn down, I'd expect that folding second row seats will be offered as an option. The people running Tesla aren't fools. And for those whose real joy is constantly hauling around large items, I expect a Tesla pickup truck will eventually be produced.

 

[Drucifer]

As far as the T8 goes... Full disclosure: TSLA stockholder since 2012. Own no stock in Volvo's parent holding company.

Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely [source: Wikipedia.org]

They don't manufacture anything in the USA:

Volvo broke ground last week in a new auto assembly plant in North Charleston, South Carolina. It is anticipated to create 4000 jobs.

South Carolina Factory | Volvo Cars