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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

Norseman

Member
Jun 3, 2015
75
0
Fort Lauderdale
. i have a 335D BMW for performance and Environmental reasons, if it's found that BMW has pulled the same stunt I'll gladly make them pay.

Got a 328xd Wagon last month, will be interesting to see how this pans out, BMW may also be in trouble. Love the car though, impressive tech with twin turbos and 8 speed tranny and 4 driving "modes". It Sure sounds like a diesel but that is ok, been around diesels all my life on boats and ships, kind of like the chatter and the smell. (Almost bought a Tesla, but leased this thing for 3 years instead when my Volt lease was up. Half price of a Tesla and 40+ mpg.)
If BMW cheated like WV it will be on a smaller scale, their diesel presence in the U.S. Is probably 1/20 Of the WV numbers.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,496
5,448
The speculation is that the only way VW was able to get away with not needing AdBlue in their 2.0 diesel engines while still having high performance was by this cheat. The BMW diesels all used AdBlue AFAIK.

It is interesting to note however they did introduce a 2.0 diesel engine with AdBlue in the 2015 model year. The university that uncovered this issue did so in May 2014.
 

beeeerock

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,510
428
Kamloops BC Canada
It is interesting to note however they did introduce a 2.0 diesel engine with AdBlue in the 2015 model year. The university that uncovered this issue did so in May 2014.
That IS interesting. The A3 in our garage is a 2015 and has an AdBlue tank. It's also on the list of offending vehicles I believe. Not sure if being in the Canadian market would make a difference, but rather doubt it... it wouldn't make sense to leave the AdBlue out of the US-destined vehicles and simply cheat with software. Or maybe the 15's are actually within tolerances. Time will tell.
 

gene

Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2013
2,286
12,453
Santa Barbara, CA
http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/27073

Research confirms link between microscopic pollutants and increased death rates
[/h] September 16, 2015
by John W. Mitchell , Senior Correspondent
Researchers have new evidence that even a minuscule increase in pollution particles can increase a population's overall death rate by 3 percent. For heart disease, the death rate goes up 10 percent, and among non-smokers the incidence of respiratory disease death jumped up 27 percent.

“Even in places that are meeting the U.S. ambient legal limit, air pollution is adversely affecting the public,” Dr. George Thurston, lead study author and professor of environmental medicine and population health at NYU Langone Medical Center, told HCB News.

http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/27073
 

dpeilow

Moderator
May 23, 2008
9,152
892
Winchester, UK
The irony is that this comes just as VW Group makes a big push into electrics and PHEVs. I hope VW aren't crippled just as they appear to have seen the light.

However, remember what the head of Audi US Johan de Nysschen said back in 2009? Set in this context the arrogance is breathtaking.

Volt Buyers 'Idiots'? Audi President Is The One Who's Wrong

This is the man that then went to Infiniti and cancelled their upmarket EV project, and is now at Cadillac and is discontinuing the ELR. I wonder if he knew about this at the time?
 

WarpedOne

Supreme Premier
Aug 17, 2006
4,359
6,527
Slovenia, Europe
Market cap means nothing when you need to cough out the $$.$$$.$$$.$$$ to pay the bill.
Those $$.$$$.$$$.$$$ come from other account that struggles to stay out of red even without all those $.

VW is entering the world of pain, this could be the start of its bankruptcy.
 

Jerico

Member
Jan 16, 2015
36
5
Spain
They should force VW to install one fast-charging spot (AC and DC) for every diesel car sold and one home charger to every owner of those diesel cars so they have an incentive to switch to electric. That would be the best way to invest the money.
 

dpeilow

Moderator
May 23, 2008
9,152
892
Winchester, UK
They should ban the diesels so that VW has to sell the 20 plug-ins they promise to bring to market this decade, rather than go on issuing press releases.

VW now seems to be one of the companies that has seen the light and is on the offensive with electrics. To push them to bankruptcy would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It would also leave the way open for "hydrogen is the answer" Toyota to dupe the public with that BS too.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,617
7,794
Maine
That IS interesting. The A3 in our garage is a 2015 and has an AdBlue tank. It's also on the list of offending vehicles I believe. Not sure if being in the Canadian market would make a difference, but rather doubt it... it wouldn't make sense to leave the AdBlue out of the US-destined vehicles and simply cheat with software. Or maybe the 15's are actually within tolerances. Time will tell.

Well, if you've been getting away with it, why change?
 

Johann Koeber

Active Member
May 1, 2012
1,186
3,426
Hersbruck, Germany
Now I understand the issue between VW and the EPA. This is really big.

But it could be bigger than that.

Aren't the same kind of cars sold worldwide? Over here VW prides themselves as fulfilling the Euro 6 specification, category N. They claim to have the cleanest diesel cars in the world.

Lets see if the German authorities check on them.
 

WarpedOne

Supreme Premier
Aug 17, 2006
4,359
6,527
Slovenia, Europe
I can't believe that they actually thought that they'd never get caught.
It is hard to believe as long one assumes they were the only one knowing it.
My bet is top EPA people knew and it only came out because of some internal political struggle/mishap.
My other bet is other manufacturers knew about it also but are guilty of same/similar sin so they were quiet because of their own agendas.
Even if some manufacturers were not cheating and indeed have a "clean diesel", putting diesel fuel into bad light would harm their own sells. So they kept quiet.

Expect diesel to vanish from USA altogether. And Europe also. Who will still believe that Euro norms were not cheated?
 

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
934
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I can't believe that they actually thought that they'd never get caught. Arrogance knows no bounds.

There's that, but there's also the fact that companies are made of people. The people, or person, who made the decision might well have thought that they'd never suffer a consequence for getting caught, but that they would suffer a consequence (loss of bonus, loss of promotion, etc.) for failing to produce a car that could be exported to the US competitively. Furthermore, they might well be right. This is why criminal sanctions for the individuals involved should be on the table. Otherwise, the logic of "I might as well jump off the cliff, I might learn to fly before I hit the bottom" is quite attractive for individuals within the corporate structure.

- - - Updated - - -

Who will still believe that Euro norms were not cheated?

I have a very dear friend who used to work in the German auto industry at a VW supplier who, when I posted about this on Facebook, replied with a puzzled "but this is rubbish, of course everybody does this, it's how the game is played" kind of answer. This is a person I respect very much, and seeing that response drove home to me how deeply rotten the system must be.
 

4SUPER9

Active Member
Jun 6, 2013
2,561
1,629
California
Looks like the civil component portion of this issue is coming out. Personally, if I had one these (not that I would EVER own a diesel), I would not accept anything less than a car that performs exactly as I purchased, and would demand a replacement, buy-back or refund.

The class-action lawyers are chomping at the bit: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/diesel-recall-likely-only-start-vws-problems-n430896

While Volkswagen faces potentially serious problems with federal regulators and prosecutors, there could be a costly civil side to the cheating scandal. Several law firms that specialize in large class action cases have already announced plans to look into the problem. That includes Seattle-based Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro LLP, which took on both Toyota and GM over their safety problems.

"The tinkering that Volkswagen will have to do by law to fix these vehicles will almost certainly degrade the performance to less than what Volkswagen claimed when it originally sold these cars," said Steve Berman, a managing partner at Hagens Berman. He said that the use of a defeat device "blindsided" consumers who "went to great lengths" who wanted vehicles that were both clean and sporty.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,592
11,355
California
Back story...

Interesting back story on how this discovery came about.
VW's Emissions Cheating Found by Curious Clean-Air Group - Bloomberg Business
A European "green" consulting group wanted to demonstrate to European regulators that diesels could be much better so that Europe would tighten their rules to the US standard. They worked with a US university which had the necessary mobile testing equipment. They expected to demonstrate that the US vehicles were much cleaner and greener but were surprised to find that they did not meet the US standards.
Then things started to unravel.
 

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