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Wall Connector or 240V Charger adapter

.... until you run the cable over with the snowblower. Whoops. This was 3 days before my other thread (the melting AC disconnect) -- and no, not related - different HPWCs. We have two (his and hers) - so in 3 days I took them both out of commission. Great week, really.
Well that's like saying an outlet isn't safe because I stuck a fork in it haha 😄
 
Generally agree, but the 120V charging is impractically slow for many people's real common use. I think 240V and at least a 20 or 30A circuit is about what I would consider low end for practicality.

But no, this is irrelevant. ALL charging at home is EXTREMELY slow charging. Quibbling about over the difference of 11 kW or 6 kW to a battery that can take over 200 kW makes no sense. To the battery's perspective, anything you can get at home is so slow, you're already in that "better for the battery" kind of area. The relevance of "slow" is just about whether it's really fast DC charging or not.
When considering slower charging there's also the efficiency to consider. The car has a relatively fixed (doesn't rely on the charge rate) overhead while charging, that's likely somewhere in the 3-400W range (running coolant pumps and battery heaters, etc...). That makes the 120v option only about 70% efficient before we even account for charger and battery charging efficiency. That's why you get a bigger improvement in "MPH" by going to 240v 20a than you might normally think.

It's also why if the weather gets cold enough, 120v charging is almost like standing still...the battery heaters draw so much that there isn't much left to actually charge the battery with.

Once you get up to 240v 24a or so, I don't think it's worth worrying about.
 
What is the real cost difference these days?
HPWC $550 + 60 amp breaker $15 = $565
MC adapter $45 + 14-50 outlet $50 + 50 amp gfci breaker $100 = $195

Assuming install costs are the same is it worth $370 more?

Also don't forget there is still a 30% federal tax credit for EV charging equiptment (someone correct me if this is no longer the case) which reduces the cost difference to $259 if you can claim the credit.

As far as I can see the HPWC advantages:
Charges ~50% faster
24' cord vs 18'
Weatherproof
You have the MC with you in the car at all times
Subjectively looks nicer

The one advantage of the MC setup is you will have a 14-50 adapter with your MC when you do decide to unplug and take it with you. Clearly it doesn't make much sense to buy a 2nd MC to use at home unless you really need a 14-50 outlet for some other reason.

When I made this choice 15 months ago I had a model Y and one non-Tesla EV and went with the 14-50 outlet. I've only taken the MC with me on 3 road trips so far otherwise it stays plugged in. Today I have the Y and a model 3 ordered. If I was making the same choice today I would go with the HPWC, but honestly expect the outlet will work well enough for us that we will keep it instead of installing a HPWC.
 
What is the real cost difference these days?
HPWC $550 + 60 amp breaker $15 = $565
MC adapter $45 + 14-50 outlet $50 + 50 amp gfci breaker $100 = $195

Assuming install costs are the same is it worth $370 more?

Also don't forget there is still a 30% federal tax credit for EV charging equiptment (someone correct me if this is no longer the case) which reduces the cost difference to $259 if you can claim the credit.

As far as I can see the HPWC advantages:
Charges ~50% faster
24' cord vs 18'
Weatherproof
You have the MC with you in the car at all times
Subjectively looks nicer

The one advantage of the MC setup is you will have a 14-50 adapter with your MC when you do decide to unplug and take it with you. Clearly it doesn't make much sense to buy a 2nd MC to use at home unless you really need a 4-50 outlet for some other reason.

When I made this choice 15 months ago I had a model Y and one non-Tesla EV and went with the 14-50 outlet. I've only taken the MC with me on 3 road trips so far otherwise it stays plugged in. Today I have the Y and a model 3 ordered. If I was making the same choice today I would go with the HPWC, but honestly expect the outlet will work well enough for us that we will keep it instead of installing a HPWC.
The tax credit expired on 12/31/21 but may renewed if any climate bill gets passed.

But yes, you are otherwise correct. See my post on the first page (3rd post down).
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,746
11,417
Boise, ID
What is the real cost difference these days?
HPWC $550 + 60 amp breaker $15 = $565
MC adapter $45 + 14-50 outlet $50 + 50 amp gfci breaker $100 = $195
And the extra neutral wire that people need to include with a 14-XX outlet but isn't used with a 240V only wall connector. If it's a few feet, that won't make much difference, but I was reading about someone's 110 foot run to do a 14-50, where that would be significant extra cost for doing the outlet.
Also don't forget there is still a 30% federal tax credit for EV charging equiptment (someone correct me if this is no longer the case) which reduces the cost difference to $259 if you can claim the credit.
This applies to both though. It's parts and labor of anything you are installing to charge an EV, so it applies to either one.
 
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This applies to both though. It's parts and labor of anything you are installing to charge an EV, so it applies to either one.
It's a moot point since it has expired, but if a credit is re-instated it does reduce the cost difference even when applied to both.

Difference in wire cost notwithstanding, 565-195 = 370, (595 x .7) - (195 x .7) ~= 259
 
Clearly it doesn't make much sense to buy a 2nd MC to use at home unless you really need a 14-50 outlet for some other reason.
I can think of a few starting scenarios and reasonable decisions to make:
1. You have no wiring or outlet. Then the comparison above between a new install of the wall connector versus 14-50 outlet with the included mobile connector and adapter makes sense. Wall connector gives higher power charging and some extra features, but is hardwired (less easy to replace if it fails for any reason) and $370 more (of course, on top of base costs to add wiring, or even a panel upgrade if needed).
2. Same as #1, but you need to have the mobile connector in the vehicle due to frequent road trips, in which case the price difference falls to $95.
3. You have a 14-50 or 6-50 outlet with an existing J1772 EVSE that plays nicely with your Tesla vehicle using the included adapter. Using it with the adapter is an easy no extra cost solution for 32A charging.
4. Same as #3 but no existing EVSE, or one that does not play nicely with your Tesla vehicle using the included adapter (Siemens Versicharge). Using the mobile connector included with the vehicle and a $45 plug adapter is an easy low cost solution for 32A charging.
5. Same as #4, but you need to have the mobile connector in the vehicle due to frequent road trips. Buying an extra $275 mobile connector plus $45 plug adapter (total $320) is less expensive than a $550 wall connector, which would still only give 32A charging if you just hardwire it to the existing 40A circuit (40A charging it the existing circuit is 50A, in which case the wall connector does become somewhat more attractive if you really want 40A versus 32A charging).
6. Same as #3, #4, #5, but you really want 48A charging, in which case you need to add or upgrade the wiring for a 60A circuit and use a wall connector anyway.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,746
11,417
Boise, ID
Didnt see it mentioned, but the "regular" wall connectors, Seimons/GE and others only give you 30/32 charge miles per hour ,, you have to use the Tesla branded wall connector to get 44 charge miles per hour.. Anybody else had a different experience?
Heh, uh, no. There are many brands of wall mounted EVSEs at many different power levels, including higher power ones than Tesla offers now. Tesla does not have a monopoly on that with their brand. Check out Clipper Creek if you want for a really good selection of great quality ones.
 
Hmm interesting , both my other EV's charged well over 30 on the same wall unit, only the Tesla stops me at 32 or 30 depending on the day of the week. I also have noticed the same issue at L2 charging stations.

My current wall unit is hard wired in to a 60A breaker. So no plugs in the way. FWIW..
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,659
3,175
East Bay NorCal
Also don't forget there is still a 30% federal tax credit for EV charging equiptment (someone correct me if this is no longer the case) which reduces the cost difference to $259 if you can claim the credit.


Oh mannnnn thanks for reminding me. I forgot to put the TWC cost as an expense item in my 2021 taxes.
 
If you want a permanent solution, get a wall connector. If you get a nema 14-50 you’ll have to keep plugging and unplugging the mobile connector if you want to keep it in the car when you leave.

If you decide to buy a mobile connector to leave at home, it costs nearly the same as a wall connector.
Hi also wanted to add that plugging and unplug is not recommended as it’s fire hazard on NEMA 14-50
 
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