Warped brake rotors with aftermarket rims installed

[Fxyz]

"It certainly could if some of the lugs were at 95 and others were at 130 though"

I doubt that could happen. Once a torque is set on the torque wrench, they should all be pretty much within the setting tolerance range unless you change it again. I don't think an installer would keep changing the setting from one bolt to another on all 4 wheels.

"Most installers these days use torque sticks which are extension/socket combos that supposedly automatically set the torque"

Do you mean the torque wrench set the torque itself? I have no idea what you are saying. You need to set the torque number yourself.

 

[Dave EV]

Torque sticks are used with impact guns. The stick basically is designed to flex once a certain torque is exceeded but it isn't exact.

Any reputable shop will use a proper torque wrench.

I still can't believe the 9mm warp. With that much warp you will have all sorts of brake issues. The pad knockback for one would cause you to have to pump the brake pedal to get the pads to engage with even a fraction that amount of warp.

 

[jerry33]

I still can't believe the 9mm warp. With that much warp you will have all sorts of brake issues. The pad knockback for one would cause you to have to pump the brake pedal to get the pads to engage with even a fraction that amount of warp.

That sounds like either a measurement error or a decimal error. 0.9 mm would be very noticeable. I'd think 9mm would be almost not driveable.

 

[Shumdit]

"It certainly could if some of the lugs were at 95 and others were at 130 though"

I doubt that could happen. Once a torque is set on the torque wrench, they should all be pretty much within the setting tolerance range unless you change it again. I don't think an installer would keep changing the setting from one bolt to another on all 4 wheels.

"Most installers these days use torque sticks which are extension/socket combos that supposedly automatically set the torque"

Do you mean the torque wrench set the torque itself? I have no idea what you are saying. You need to set the torque number yourself.

Not a torque wrench. Due to a number of factors (likelihood of a torque wrench being dropped or not set back to zero when not being used, etc., both of which will cause calibration issues) tire shops use torque sticks which are designed to be set to a certain torque and are not adjustable. The issue is that these wear also, and air pressure, size of the gun being used, time installer keeps applying Torquemada etc all affect the actual torque being applied.

Neiko Heavy-Duty Torque Stick, 1/2-Inch Drive Extension Bars 65 to 140 Ft Lbs - Chrome Molybdenum - Socket Wrenches - Amazon.com

They are used at discount tire, Firestone, etc. in my area so while I agree with the earlier post that a reputable installer SHOULD use a proper torque wrench, it's just not as common as it once was. I had tires rotated at a "reputable" chain and I asked them to use a torque wrench and gave them the proper amount the factory called for. I the saw them using a torque stick so when I went out to ask them to please use a proper torque wrench as I had requested they informed me they did not have an actual torque wrench on hand. Furthermore the torque stick they were using was 20 lb-ft less than I specified but they did not have one closer to what I requested.

 

[jerry33]

All the Discount Tires I've been to use a real torque wrench.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Here's the question I have. Is it possible to verify/measure the torque that the shop used afterwards? Or is the only possible option simply re-torquing the lugs (and never knowing what the shop used). It would be nice to be able to at least check their work afterwards.

 

[jerry33]

Here's the question I have. Is it possible to verify/measure the torque that the shop used afterwards? Or is the only possible option simply re-torquing the lugs (and never knowing what the shop used). It would be nice to be able to at least check their work afterwards.

Assuming you use a calibrated click-type torque wrench, if the nut turns before the click, it was too loose. If it doesn't move it was the same. If you use one that shows where the torque is when the nut is turning you'll get a good idea.

However, you're supposed to re-torque after 300 miles anyway. Because most people don't do this, the shops usually torque to higher than specs--sometimes way higher.

 

[Fxyz]

That sounds like either a measurement error or a decimal error. 0.9 mm would be very noticeable. I'd think 9mm would be almost not driveable.

I am only repeating the number that was given to me. Lisa is not very technical so until I get the rotors back I can not be sure. But I do not think all 4 pads needed replacing if the worse one is 0.9mm. Pads should all be almost brand new since I rarely use the brakes except for the last 5 mph, with the exception of one hard braking.

We can discuss/argue about torque wrench as much as we like but it is a very simple tool to use; you set the number then go over each bolt/nut. Once it is set, the applied torque will vary very little from one bolt/nut to another. They could be all off, but same. The fact that my wheels were still on the car after 7k miles, it indicated to me that there were sufficient torque used (TM could not see me earlier, so when I finally took car in this week, it had 7k miles).

So...until I hear more explanation from TM I do not have anything else to say.

P.S. If you do not have or know how to use a torque wrench, you should get one. My first torque wrench was a classic Craftsman beam style wrench.

 

[Shumdit]

All the Discount Tires I've been to use a real torque wrench.

I can say for sure the one in Greer, SC uses torque sticks.

 

[William13]

@Fxyz, what is your theory that you have yet to share?

 

[Fxyz]

Mr. Brooks from Costa Mesa SC replied my email. He basically said the warranty was voided because the wheel torque did not match the service manual and he will not provide a written statement.

I replied to him that I failed to see why a written statement can not be provided since it is just a written form of the verbal statement given to me to void the warranty. Am I being too unreasonable here? I also fail to see that by saying torque is different than the service manual is a proof of the cause.

I will be picking up the warped rotor after returning from my business trip. I want to see how badly the rotors are warped. They are returning my old rotors, instead of sending them to Fremont for analysis, since I paid for them.

 

[ckessel]

Mr. Brooks from Costa Mesa SC replied my email. He basically said the warranty was voided because the wheel torque did not match the service manual and he will not provide a written statement.

I replied to him that I failed to see why a written statement can not be provided since it is just a written form of the verbal statement given to me to void the warranty. Am I being too unreasonable here?

I will be picking up the warped rotor after returning from my business trip. I want to see how badly the rotors are warped. They are returning my old rotors, instead of sending them to Fremont for analysis, since I paid for them.

That's absurd. They can't officially tell you the warranty is voided and then not officially provide paperwork on the reason. That's pulling some serious fake CIA BS.

"Uh, yea, your warranty is void, but we can't tell you why or we'd have to kill you."

I'd push back, hard, just on principle. Tell them you want to invoke the dispute resolution arbitration clause in the warranty.

 

[qwk]

That's absurd. They can't officially tell you the warranty is voided and then not officially provide paperwork on the reason. That's pulling some serious fake CIA BS.

"Uh, yea, your warranty is void, but we can't tell you why or we'd have to kill you."

I'd push back, hard, just on principle. Tell them you want to invoke the dispute resolution arbitration clause in the warranty.

I agree 100%. What a joke. The warranty is either voided on the brake parts, or it isn't. If it is, there should be no problem with the explanation in writing.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm not a Tesla owner, so I'm not sure how it works, but can't you appeal to Tesla HQ to see if they can do anything about the situation or offer a better solution than only the service center?

For example, if they want the old rotors for analysis they should at least give you some incentive to do so.

 

[AWDtsla]

This thread is a shitshow. Post some pictures of said rotors being measured show "9 mm" of run-out. Although I'm sure it's not 9 mm that's ridiculous, it's probably less than 1mm if anything at all.

Take them Pep Boys and have them cut all the rotors straight for a few bucks, use them once your new ones are worn out. I'm sure they can measure it for you too.

 

[Fxyz]

After few email exchanges with Mr. Brooks, TM decided to refund the repair cost as one time goodwill. Warped rotors will be send to Fremont for inspection. TM also clarified that the rotors were warped up to 0.9mm; not 9mm.

Case closed for now.

 

[Doug_G]

Just for the record, I don't trust most tire installation outfits. After some bad experiences I now check tire pressures and re-torque the wheels as soon as it is back in my possession, i.e. before leaving the location. If it's not done right, I go back inside and complain.

I've had some good experiences where I've watched them set pressures and use a torque wrench and everything was bang on. I've also got a car back with three tires 10 lbs low and one tire 25 lbs high(!). I've also had torques all over the map, and once had to go all Lt. Worf on the lug nuts to back them out so I could re-torque them properly. A friend of mine had his wheel nuts ridiculously over-torqued by an idiot with an impact gun, to the point of damage.

Find a good shop you trust, and stick with them.

Anyway, glad to hear that Tesla resolved the issue to your satisfaction. Now just make sure those nuts are torqued properly!!!

 

[Fxyz]

I also received a reply from Brembo.

In summary, over torque can cause rotor issue while under torque can cause the nut/bolt to come off. So I guess all the comments about lower torque causes warped rotors are just BS?

"The use of a tightening torque smaller than the prescribed can lead to loosening the screws, while the use of a higher torque can lead to a deformation or a breaking risk."

 

[david thorne]

I have just been told that my OEM rims that I had powder coated black is the cause for my rotors being warped for the second time.
The first time the rotors were replaced free at about 13,500 miles. By then they had about 8,000 miles after powder coating. Now at a roughly further 1,500 miles and 4 weeks later they are warped again.
Mechanic said when rotors were replaced the wheels were rotated and not re balanced, they did however give me a report that all the alignments were in spec.
Anyone have any ideas why this is happening?

 

[Gizmotoy]

I have just been told that my OEM rims that I had powder coated black is the cause for my rotors being warped for the second time.
The first time the rotors were replaced free at about 13,500 miles. By then they had about 8,000 miles after powder coating. Now at a roughly further 1,500 miles and 4 weeks later they are warped again.
Mechanic said when rotors were replaced the wheels were rotated and not re balanced, they did however give me a report that all the alignments were in spec.
Anyone have any ideas why this is happening?

Well it's certainly not because they were powder coated, if that was their implication. Powder coating can lead to wheel failure if done improperly, but I can't think of any scenarios where it would warp rotors.

Are they saying the wheel balance was off? That would commonly create vibrations in the cabin/steering wheel if true. But again, not sure it would warp rotors.

Improper lug torque, though, could definitely cause it, as discussed up-thread, though it sounds like Tesla themselves touched them last, so presumably it was correct.

Unfortunately I can't say I have any great suggestions for you. Without the backstory, I would have said they were torqued improperly.