Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[Tempus]

The problem is exactly that, you don't know.

The cost of the service contract is nowhere on the Tesla site except buried in a response to a blog post. If it were up front in the price, there'd be no question of what the cost was.

Then there's the issue of what will the 5 to 8 year battery warranty cost. Since Tesla seems to have a policy of charging for "included" items and notifying people only after purchase, aka "bait and switch", there's a real question of what's in store.

ok, come on - now you're just passing misinformation.
Service | Tesla Motors
that is NOT in any way "buried in a blog post"

but that's really not the point - i get that people are upset that we (and i include tesla here) didn't know up front what the full price was going to be for service (and for supercharging in some cases), and we still don't know the extended warranty.... these are early adopter issues. It's not bait and switch. it's tesla publishing information as they have it - and yes, that sucks for some early adopters, but such is life in that scenario.

In 6 months or a year, these will all be complete non issues. people who are signing contracts at that point will know exactly what the costs are, and I for one think it's much better that they break out costs to this extent as opposed to having everything just hidden in the base cost of the car.

 

[strider]

i'm just not sure i get that attitude. Obviously a lot of people feel that way (that it would be better to roll the service price into the car price and basically hide it from the buyer), but if you're paying the exact same amount anyway, wouldn't you rather know what the breakdown is? It just seems like people are saying - go ahead and hide these costs that you are still paying, and i'll feel better about buying the car... just don't get it.

Because it's easier to justify as an "early adopter penalty" if the car is more expensive yet maintenance (on a "low-maintenance vehicle") is cheap/free. It also allows people to finance the cost if need be since it's rolled into the purchase price. Also, the fact that I know the breakdown has me really upset as I don't see the value in what they're charging for service. If the price of my car was $95k with free service for 4 years instead of $93k then that would just be the cost of the car and I could pay it or not. But now it feels like I'm not only paying a lot for the car but now I'm paying a lot for service.

I know it doesn't make any sense and that it's an emotional response but it is what it is. I'm not Spock

 

[dsm363]

oIn 6 months or a year, these will all be complete non issues. people who are signing contracts at that point will know exactly what the costs are, and I for one think it's much better that they break out costs to this extent as opposed to having everything just hidden in the base cost of the car.

I agree. This is all early adopter issues. I don't think any malicious intent is here on Tesla's part it just that they're moving things out the door as fast as possible and nailing things down when they can. Could things have gone smoother in retrospect? Sure but they usually step up to the plate and do the right thing when it's possible.

 

[RDoc]

ok, come on - now you're just passing misinformation.
Service | Tesla Motors
that is NOT in any way "buried in a blog post"

Misinformation - Really?

Before making such claims, try to find somewhere on that page or any other on the Tesla site apart from GeorgeB's reply to the blog post that says you must buy their service to keep your warranty intact. Lots of car companies offer paid service plans, none I'm aware of will void your warranty if you don't buy it.

If you can't find it, please post an apology.

 

[ckessel]

Before making such claims, try to find somewhere on that page or any other on the Tesla site apart from GeorgeB's reply to the blog post that says you must buy their service to keep your warranty intact.

It doesn't say you must buy Tesla's service because the actual warranty doesn't require it.

 

[Tempus]

Misinformation - Really?

Before making such claims, try to find somewhere on that page or any other on the Tesla site apart from GeorgeB's reply to the blog post that says you must buy their service to keep your warranty intact. Lots of car companies offer paid service plans, none I'm aware of will void your warranty if you don't buy it.

If you can't find it, please post an apology.

I'm completely not going to rehash that discussion again. besides, here is your quote that i was responding directly to:

The cost of the service contract is nowhere on the Tesla site except buried in a response to a blog post.

in fact, the cost of the service contract is directly in the link i posted. I don't see how George's message on this site is even directly relevant.

 

[RDoc]

There seem to be at least two camps here, those who think the service is required to maintain the warranty and those who don't.

I'm with the ones who think it's required since GeorgeB, a person of some authority explicitly stated that it is. If it isn't then that's pretty bad since he's trying to scare people into buying something that's not required and is a deliberate falsehood. I doubt that.

If Tesla thinks it's required, but legally it isn't, which is a real possibility, then it will be fought out in the courts. That's not something I want any part of. If the service sounds expensive, a lawsuit will be substantially more.

@Tempus: That quote was in direct response to the question of including mandatory service in the price of the car or not. If it weren't mandatory, this thread wouldn't exist, note the title of the thread "Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)".

 

[ckessel]

I'm with the ones who think it's required since GeorgeB, a person of some authority explicitly stated that it is. If it isn't then that's pretty bad since he's trying to scare people into buying something that's not required and is a deliberate falsehood. I doubt that.

Or George isn't a legal guy and knows maintenance is required, but didn't realize the warranty doesn't (and can't) restrict such maintenance to Tesla.

There may be two camps of thought, but one is based on a forum posting and the other is based on the wording in the actual legally binding warranty and that's the only one that's going to matter.

 

[Tempus]

There seem to be at least two camps here, those who think the service is required to maintain the warranty and those who don't.

I'm with the ones who think it's required since GeorgeB, a person of some authority explicitly stated that it is. If it isn't then that's pretty bad since he's trying to scare people into buying something that's not required and is a deliberate falsehood. I doubt that.

If Tesla thinks it's required, but legally it isn't, which is a real possibility, then it will be fought out in the courts. That's not something I want any part of. If the service sounds expensive, a lawsuit will be substantially more.

@Tempus: That quote was in direct response to the question of including mandatory service in the price of the car or not. If it weren't mandatory, this thread wouldn't exist, note the title of the thread "Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)".

Ok, i see your point re the context, i wasnt reading the two as the same since plenty of ice cars include x years of service in the price of the car, and that was the context i took your quote in, and that part of the discussion has little to do with whether georges comments were legal or not..... Frankly thats a whole other ball of wax which i wasnt trying to address

 

[bonnie]

There seem to be at least two camps here, those who think the service is required to maintain the warranty and those who don't.

I'm with the ones who think it's required since GeorgeB, a person of some authority explicitly stated that it is. If it isn't then that's pretty bad since he's trying to scare people into buying something that's not required and is a deliberate falsehood. I doubt that.

Or a third camp, which believes the warranty is the controlling legal document and that George's post, while not as clear as it should have been, was not a deliberate falsehood but only an error in wording. I assume good intent here. So far that's worked pretty well for me.

 

[hcsharp]

Or a third camp, which believes the warranty is the controlling legal document and that George's post, while not as clear as it should have been, was not a deliberate falsehood but only an error in wording. I assume good intent here. So far that's worked pretty well for me.

I don't think there's a third camp. Tesla made a mistake but I don't think anybody had bad intent. @RDoc I wouldn't assume that GeorgeB was trying to scare anyone. He either messed up his wording or he didn't understand the requirements himself. Based on his language I'm somewhat confused by the difference between annual/12.5k inspections and annual maintenance.

 

[vfx]

Are any of the phone updates things that were supposed to be included? I like that Tesla came out with the car early and is upgrading on the fly. It's brillaint marketing. At some point the firmware upgrades will be things that people havve been asking for but never promised. Or things that Tesla thought would make the car better. That's when the value kicks in.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by djp
Here's the checklist for the Roadster annual maintenance, which is also $600.

<snip> list of inspections and maintenance items </snip>

Should include a 2.0 12V battery replacement.

 

[RDoc]

What's unclear about this quote from GeorgeB's reply to the original service blog post?

When you combine these two items together, some that are “mileage dependent” and some that are “time dependent”, hopefully you will understand why we need to see your car at regular intervals. So, to answer the question clearly about whether failure to do Annual or 12,500 mile Inspections voids your warranty, yes it does. We need to see your car to make sure all covered wear and tear parts are visually inspected and replaced, as needed, before they grow into bigger issues. And we want to make sure things affected by “time” are replaced on their appropriate schedule. This may not be a popular answer, but it is the best way for us to make sure you and your car are being taken care of properly.

This is from the original blog which is all about this service/inspection plan. I don't really see how GeorgeB's post could be referring to anything else.

NORTH AMERICAN SERVICE PRICING

In North America, a one-year (or 12,500-mile) service plan costs $600. This price covers your annual inspection and all wear and tear parts, excluding tires. This plan is paid for at the time of your annual (or 12,500-mile) inspection.

It's quite possible that voiding the warranty like this is illegal, however, it's pretty clear that at least GeorgeB thinks that's Tesla's policy. Thus far there's been no other word from Tesla denying it either. I'm hoping the silence means they are reconsidering their position, not just stonewalling.

As I've said before, it might be possible to win a court suit, but that's going to be a long, difficult and very expensive process.

Tesla really needs to get this clarified. It's already starting to filter out to the auto press and isn't going to help them sell cars.

 

[Citizen-T]

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

 

[westerndh]

Very well said!

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

 

[efusco]

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

That's the statement I'd choose to lock this 'shark jumped' thread on.


Evan, Via Tapatalk

 

[mnx]

I say it's time to close this thread already Let Citizen-T's post be the last one.

 

[bonnie]

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

I agree, it would be a good final quote for this thread. Policy is to leave threads open, BUT, there is nothing stopping people from constantly quoting that post. Like I just did.

 

[dsm363]

Maybe we should unsticky this. When any clarification becomes available and the warranty is fully understood, a new thread can be started discussing it.

Since everyone is quoting it, why not? Great post too:

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

 

[bonnie]

My God, is this really still going on? I for one would like to applaud George B's instincts on what whining deserves changes (the supercharger bit for those already locked in) and what doesn't.

I'll tell you what is "leaking into the automotive press": Model S spanking the M5 in a drag race.

Here's my advice. Stop comparing every little detail to its ICE counterpart. Tesla can't make Model S a better ICE than the ICE kings, and they can't make themselves a better traditional car company than the established players. The only way to win this is to play a different game. Sometimes that means no more haggling over price. Sometimes it means you have to wait for your car. Sometimes it means free fuel for your road trips and new features over the air, and sometimes it means no free service under warranty.

Every time I read "every other car manufacturer does x" I throw up a little in my mouth.

Step back and take another look at the big picture here. Go have a look at that thread with pics of everyone's kids in the driver seat of the Model S. Go watch some Tesla grin videos on YouTube. Pull out those pics you too at the factory tour last year. You know, that American factory that is now building American cars, guess what, it is still there.

Tesla has earned my trust. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else to be serviced, whether it is allowed or not. If they say it costs $600 a year, so be it. I probably spend a lot more than that on a lot of things that I care a whole lot less about (coffee for instance).

Different business models are, well, different. And I definitely want different.

Thread is unstuck. Good suggestion, I hadn't even noticed.