Why a 215 mi range?

[geoffreak]

I think in the short term the answer is going to be:

get the big battery and keep it under 80......

Yeah, absolutely. The smaller battery isn't an option for me to fulfill that wish. I was mostly working out the math to prove it. Once Tesla reveals the upgrade price, I'll be able to decide if the upgrade is worth it for this hypothetical (which is mostly to make it an easier pitch to my wife and relatives) or if I'll just deal with stopping at the supercharger every time.

With a smaller Cd we'd be looking at less of a loss at high speed compared with the Model S so the graph would be a little less steep of a drop off.

I decided to work out the numbers for a worst case scenario with the understanding that it might be closer to a 20% reduction in range with the 3. Every bit of additional range would help, but I'm not even close to my ideal range so it doesn't really matter much to me.

 

[Booga]

I decided to work out the numbers for a worst case scenario with the understanding that it might be closer to a 20% reduction in range with the 3. Every bit of additional range would help, but I'm not even close to my ideal range so it doesn't really matter much to me.

You're right to be thinking about it this way. Depending on how long you own the car, you might get some battery degradation over time, which lowers the capacity as well. It's my opinion that the 215 miles of range is going to be a good offering for those who intend on staying in town most of the time, can charge at home or work regularly, and/or live in a generally warm place without winters that drop below 0F. It's not yet a 100% no worries replacement for an ICE based vehicle.

I mentioned this in another thread - I think that roughly 200 miles of range is like a 64GB SSD in computers. The 300 mile range is like a 128GB in my opinion. At that point, for nearly anything I'm doing, I'm in pretty good shape. At 64gb, I'm struggling a little and have to plan things out more than I would like. (This isn't a perfect analogy, because some applications need multiples of it like with video editing, but it works within a range of comparison)

If 300+ miles of rated range is available at a reasonable price after a tax credit, then I'm a buyer of the Model 3. If I can't get it, then I'll consider passing on the car. I love the new technology and can't wait... I'm hopeful it will be affordable with the options I want.

 

[jkk_]

I mentioned this in another thread - I think that roughly 200 miles of range is like a 64GB SSD in computers. The 300 mile range is like a 128GB in my opinion. At that point, for nearly anything I'm doing, I'm in pretty good shape. At 64gb, I'm struggling a little and have to plan things out more than I would like. (This isn't a perfect analogy, because some applications need multiples of it like with video editing, but it works within a range of comparison)

Not the perfect analogy yeah, but still, well said. I'll extent your analogy by adding that you really don't get all of the 64GB or 128GB for yourself, you lose some for the formatting, OS etc. Like you lose range for speed, wind, weather, temperature. I suppose that I could make do with the 215 miles range but it would be quite the hassle during winter and I'd rather have enough buffer that I don't need to worry about it.

 

[SageBrush]

As soon as temperatures hit above 60, I get higher than EPA in my Leaf. Sometimes those records are as high as near 30% above EPA on city/suburban streets (<50mph).

I also had over 20% above EPA on my last gas car, a smart car in both city and highway driving conditions.

That is my experience also, in both our Honda Fit and Toyota Prius (v)agon:
Low 40's MPG in the Fit in mostly highway driving
About 50 MPG lifetime in the (v)agon

According to EPA,
Honda Fit 31 MPG combined
Prius (v)agon 42 MPG combined

 

[brianman]

Probably related to expectations for the Bolt.

Your Prediction: Bolt EPA Range - View Poll Results

 

[voip-ninja]

It depends on what you consider "cruise speed". In many areas of the country, 75 is technically speeding (I know....there are a few places where faster IS legal...) and there's no way a company would do their range calculations based on a speed that is illegal in most places.

When they say "cruise speed", they most likely mean 65.


And at that speed, with the drag coefficient they're aiming for, with AWD, the front wheels will be doing most of the work at cruising speed, boosting efficiency.

In the mid-west legal speeds can go up to 80-85 mph and some stretches of those roads you might get run off by big rigs if you are in the fast lane going less than 90 mph.

Additionally Tesla is an international company and there are many markets with very high legal speeds. Germany and Australia are two of the biggest.

I am willing to make some very small compromises to drive an EV. Needing to stop for a 30 minute charge after every 2 hours of driving in the flow of traffic is not one of them. I will have to see what the improvements are with larger batteries and what they will cost. For me, personally, 300 miles of range at 65mph and about 240 in actual usage at 80mph would be acceptable. I don't take many long drives but do so occasionally and want the car to function as similarly to my BMW as possible.

 

[brianman]

In the mid-west legal speeds can go up to 80-85 mph and some stretches of those roads you might get run off by big rigs if you are in the fast lane going less than 90 mph.

People should be passing not camping in the left lane anyway. If you're really worried about range, you shouldn't spend much time passing (at such speeds) either.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

In the mid-west legal speeds can go up to 80-85 mph and some stretches of those roads you might get run off by big rigs if you are in the fast lane going less than 90 mph.

Additionally Tesla is an international company and there are many markets with very high legal speeds. Germany and Australia are two of the biggest.

I am willing to make some very small compromises to drive an EV. Needing to stop for a 30 minute charge after every 2 hours of driving in the flow of traffic is not one of them. I will have to see what the improvements are with larger batteries and what they will cost. For me, personally, 300 miles of range at 65mph and about 240 in actual usage at 80mph would be acceptable. I don't take many long drives but do so occasionally and want the car to function as similarly to my BMW as possible.

The wife gets 36mpg in her Subie, and I get 33-34 in my Audi. I also have a good enough idea of how the elevation changes and temperature will affect range on our only really long drive (MA to VA and back) to see the in-laws. I know I should take it easy through MA and CT, but as I get into NY/NJ and points south, the terrain smooths out and I can cruise along at the minimum suggested speed of 80mph on the Jersey Turnpike.

Luckily, the SC network as it's already in place, will support that trip just fine.

 

[voip-ninja]

People should be passing not camping in the left lane anyway. If you're really worried about range, you shouldn't spend much time passing (at such speeds) either.

No lectures please. I actually grew up in a part of the country where they practice lane discipline and have logged quite a few hours on the autobahn.

 

[brianman]

No lectures please. I actually grew up in a part of the country where they practice lane discipline and have logged quite a few hours on the autobahn.

Heh. I think a lecture requires at lot more than 27 words.

Regardless of speed, if you're not literally blocked in front (or in a construction zone, etc.) while in the left lane and a big rig is at all capable of reaching your bumper you're doing it wrong.

 

[voip-ninja]

Heh. I think a lecture requires at lot more than 27 words.

Regardless of speed, if you're not literally blocked in front (or in a construction zone, etc.) while in the left lane and a big rig is at all capable of reaching your bumper you're doing it wrong.

Or maybe I am commenting on things I have witnessed happening to other drivers on eastbound I80 where rigs will radio behind about speed traps and triple digit speeds coming out of Utah are typical (and a shock to drivers used to dawdling along in the passing lane).

 

[TSLAholic]

215 x 0.7 = 150. Isn't 150 mile real world range something they deem necessary to make it from SC to SC in the middle of a cold winter trip?

 

[brianman]

drivers used to dawdling along in the passing lane

Natural selection.

 

[voip-ninja]

215 x 0.7 = 150. Isn't 150 mile real world range something they deem necessary to make it from SC to SC in the middle of a cold winter trip?

At faster highway speeds you will probably get less range than that at temps well below freezing.

Some are willing to drive at 60mph in a 75mph roadway to make it happen. Not me though.

 

[182RG]

At faster highway speeds you will probably get less range than that at temps well below freezing.

Some are willing to drive at 60mph in a 75mph roadway to make it happen. Not me though.

^ This ^

Lack of a battery upgrade that allows me to drive SC to SC at 75 MPH in 30 degree weather or 95 degree weather with a safety margin would probably be my only deal killer. Not a fan of the far right lane.....

15 - 20 MPH below the traffic flow on I-95 isn't just irritating. It's unsafe.

I truly would pay serious upgrade $$ to be able to make it the 230 miles door to door to our beach house, in all weather / wind conditions at 75 MPH, without a stop at the Richmond, VA SC.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I live somewhere where a big rig isn't technically allowed in the left lane......so there's that.

 

[JeffK]

I live somewhere where a big rig isn't technically allowed in the left lane......so there's that.

They aren't allowed there in most states but it doesn't stop them from doing it. It's a good way to lose your CDL.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

^ This ^

Lack of a battery upgrade that allows me to drive SC to SC at 75 MPH in 30 degree weather or 95 degree weather with a safety margin would probably be my only deal killer. Not a fan of the far right lane.....

15 - 20 MPH below the traffic flow on I-95 isn't just irritating. It's unsafe.

I truly would pay serious upgrade $$ to be able to make it the 230 miles door to door to our beach house, in all weather / wind conditions at 75 MPH, without a stop at the Richmond, VA SC.

My in-laws live out by Farmville, so the Glen Allen SC will be a regular stop when we visit them.

Luckily they have a 14-50 already installed. There isn't much in the way of Tesla charging infrastructure in that corner of the state.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

They aren't allowed there in most states but it doesn't stop them from doing it. It's a good way to lose your CDL.

on 495 on the outer edges of Boston, the cops won't blink an eye if you're doing 85, but they will nail a truck driver in the left lane.

 

[pmadflyer]

I almost saw someone get destroyed in a Leaf on the highway. Going 55 on a 70 (read 75) highway, the vehicle behind him moved over to pass, and no one behind expected to come up on a car so quickly on the highway. I really don't want to have to go below the speed limit to make it to my destination. Also, it would be bad advertising.