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I'd be happy to, right after you explain the scientific methods you used to determine that you gained 10% at 300ft.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I would probably use the word 'simulations' rather than 'testing'.
I think they made a simulation, hoped for a certain result, didn't reach it, but consistently got over 215 miles of range when going through the EPA's 5-Cycle testing procedure.
The only misdirection, if any, is that Elon Musk has only spoken of minimum EPA, or minimum 'Real World' range. Thus far there has been no notation of an expected maximum. I do know that at one point he wanted to offer a $50,000 (after incentives) version of Model S that had a 320 mile range. But reality set in and made that impossible. I'm sure Elon would love to fix that with Model ☰.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
There is nothing to be gained from bickering and pecking; please stop.
Any idea how to model this question by first principles ? That would be cool.
diamond.g
Active Member
I would rather Tesla work towards a 200mi range in cold weather, than to worry about 200mi EPA. Especially since the EPA 5-cycle test doesn't take into account cold weather.
Detailed Test Information
Click on Test Details and you should see that they do have a cold temperature test. Or am I misunderstanding what you're describing? I haven't followed this conversation 100%.
diamond.g
Active Member
That is a low speed cold temp test. Which is useful, but not what folks are talking about here. Most are concerned about range doing normal interstate speeds in cold weather.
If by low speed you mean average city driving when it's below freezing.
I think the biggest thing affecting range in the winter is the battery response to cold temps. The most battery drain is going to be the strongest during acceleration so this test is actually a very decent measure of real world conditions and would arguably be more difficult than a continuous interstate run in the same time interval even at high speed.
diamond.g
Active Member
It would also be a nice surprise if Tesla rates the Model 3 at the 80% charge point instead of the 100%. But I understand that isn't likely.
It's too confusing to customers, while competition would just state their max to look better. You'd need yet another industry standard to hope to improve advertised range estimate as compared to reality. The cold weather and life shortening max charges should be factors included in the advertised range.
diamond.g
Active Member
The problem with not doing it that way is the end user, who has been told not to 100% charge (often), won't see the full range.
With a commute like mine having it be rated at 80% allows the cold weather range loss to not hurt as much.
One can dream...
With tesla's track record of over promising and under delivering, i say the 215 miles spec is so they can one up the competitor's number to make the model 3 look better. I say the 215 miles is the best case range for the M3. Those who believe it is real can continue to live in their fantasy world. I wont believe it until i see it in real life under real world conditions.
I easily believe it due to the tremendous weight reductions and known battery density improvements.
I disagree, Elon has spoke about his concern a few times that the third generation car needs a real world range of at least 200 mi. so he'd always considered a buffer of 20% if I recall correctly. If this holds then I'd say best case range would be more like 240-250. EPA might give an estimate closer to 215
It might depend on where the "real world" is located
Warmer areas - no doubt. Colder areas - less likely.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
No, the Model 3 will not have the same battery technology as the 2016 Model S.
Cell sizes will be larger in 2018, no more 16850, the new cells will be something like 20700 giving higher density and requiring a redesign of the rest of the pack structure.
It will change the cooling characteristics.
It will change the layout.
It will change the density.
Pretty significant difference between Model 3 and old school Model S.
Now if you want to say that Model S/X will get those larger cells down the road and share battery technology I'll agree. But for now you can't accurately say that Model S of today and Model 3 of the future have the same battery tech.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Over my head and past my prime. I see though that the solution is a differential equation. While driving home today I kinda sorta convinced myself that the pull would decrease proportionately to the square of the distance.Navier-Stokes. Let me know how you do.
travwill
Active Member
And just remember, they always quote max 100% miles, something all users have to realize is not the norm and not feasible really since it takes so long to charge to 100% at times. So 215 (or more) being 100%, you'll really only charge to 90% typically, netting about 193 miles being typical. That will also be for a D version since more efficient, a RWD will have a little less.
REAL world driving will likely net about 5% - 10% lower than that, so more like 175 REAL world miles (maybe more). If you are in a COLD climate during really cold months you'll likely see another 70% cut on that, netting you a final total ~121 REAL miles or so in those colder months.
Just always keep those reductions in mind...
-T
REAL world driving will likely net about 5% - 10% lower than that, so more like 175 REAL world miles (maybe more). If you are in a COLD climate during really cold months you'll likely see another 70% cut on that, netting you a final total ~121 REAL miles or so in those colder months.
Just always keep those reductions in mind...
-T
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