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Discussion in 'Model S' started by mxb172, Aug 7, 2018.
Just read my sales contact - can confirm regular TMC posts are not required as part of ownership.
Sorry, I was not questioning your information. I was only curious why you chose to post only after you'd given up on Model S. After all the vast majority of owners don't post here at all.
I had the exact opposite experience to OP. I drove a model S first and then decided if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd try any other cars in the ~$85,000 price range that interested me. The car that came closest to unseating the model S (for me) was the Audi S7.
It had almost the same utility for a family, terrific performance and a really sweet engine note on the V8. All of the materials were top-notch and completely blew away anything you'd find in a Tesla... just the leather on the seats alone was amazing. And then you look up at the map, and notice it's not touchscreen... you still have to manipulate it with that terrible BMW-style knob in the console. Then you look at the rest of the center stack and start feeling like you're traveling back in time a decade or so.
If I hadn't driven the model S first, maybe it would've been different. For me, there's no amount of "luxury" finishes that can replace the feeling of "progress" you get in a Tesla cabin. I saw someone here compare it to going back to a flip phone after you used an iPhone for a bit, and that feels like a really good comparison. When the iPhone came out there were a couple of handsets (notably Motorola) that were significantly better purely as *phones* at the time... it didn't matter because the definition of what a phone is was rapidly changing.
I just want to point out that my intention of posting this here was not to offend or persuade anyone away from Tesla. Quite the opposite actually. As a true Tesla fanboy for many years, I thought I would create some discussion on my thought process as I moved away from my 3rd Model S. I honestly did not expect some of the offensive backlash, although I once used to make the same ignorant comments about "bacteria infested gas pump handles" etc. I've since grown to stop blindly defending my Model S as I'm realizing it has some major benefits, but also some flaws. I'd like to list a few things to help further this discussion.
Things I will REALLY miss about my Model S
That pure, raw instant torque and acceleration that an ICE car can never come close to
The massive 17" touch screen
Constant software updates and improvements
True AP and eventually (we hope) FSD
Self presenting doors, auto lock/unlock
A "full tank" every morning
Adjustable suspension (living in Chicago, this comes in handy more often than not)
GPS Homelink - this is really a nice convenience feature
Tesla iOS App - very nicely designed and responsive compared to others I've used (Range Rover and now BMW)
This truly passionate community of owners
Things I WON'T miss about my Model S and appreciate in my M5
The lack of basic necessities - coat hooks, usable cupholders, concealed storage (can't go full ludicrous mode without all my crap flying out of the useless cubby below the Model S screen). I now actually have cupholders that hold my coffee mug without rattling.
Driver seat adjustability and comfort - M5 has side bolsters that self adjust, thigh/lumbar support and it's all fully adjustable. We recently got excited when the Model S introduced adjustable headrests, IMO these are basics and I should not be taxed to add them later on (see original center console). We shouldn't get so excited over basic requirements.
Switchgear - although model S has very minimal buttons, the ones we do have are not well built - see interior light switches, turn signal stalk and steering wheel buttons. They feel cheap and plastic compared to a higher end vehicles.
I can actually see inside my trunk! Not trying to be funny, but the worthless lighting in the model S trunk wasn't as noticeable until I opened my M5 and actually saw clearly.
A "TRUE" premium sound system. I can't understand why Tesla delivers a premium car with a Toyota corolla sound system. It's really poor. The M5 blows it out of the water. Without needing a 3rd party upgrade.
The feeling that my car could be rendered obsolete in the next 24 hours. AP came out 1 year after I bought my first Model S. AP2 came out 4 weeks after my second one. It's a tough pill to swallow when you want to be on the cutting edge and spend all this money.
That exhaust note. And NO it is not fake and piped through the speakers. The F90 M5 is 100% authentic exhaust. There is something visceral about being a car guy and hearing a roaring exhaust behind you. The silence of the Tesla is great too, but this is different.
Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keep Assist. I know I will get crucified for even mentioning this compared to AP, but I'm really enjoying how smooth the system works. It doesn't have the jarring acceleration/braking that AP has in traffic. Obviously this will improve with software but currently I prefer the BMW system to Tesla. Eventually Tesla will be perfect, it's just not there yet.
A true world class service experience. Tesla used to offer this, and now I'm treated much differently. My BWM dealership delivered my car to my door at the time I requested. They will come pick up the car and leave me a loaner from my place of business to perform any maintenance, service or repairs. At $100k+ I expect this. I'm not buying a Camry.
Ultimately, let's just save the stupid comments about "filling up gas like a loser" and all the fake environmentalists who act like they care, but are completely clueless. Keep your comments related to physical hardware and software and let's make this a respectful discussion as I'm sure many others share my feelings. This isn't my last EV by any means. I lease cars for 24 months so I can move freely to new technology. Perhaps the Lucid Air gets funding and actually comes to fruition. Perhaps Tesla really does engineer a high quality premium sedan in the $100k+ market and I return. I have 24 months to enjoy this M5 until then.
Porsche could actually provide a vehicle I would consider over a Tesla.
2019 BMW M5 Competition First Drive: Fighting Weight - Motor Trend
Looks like it is still piped fake noise. But it does have nice cup holders and coat hooks.
You did pretty well at
until you said
Well said and I agree 98.3%. You should have posted more often.
I used to enjoy swapping cars every year or two. I have a two year lease on my Model X. I still haven't decided on my next vehicle, but I will probably stick with Tesla. I am also a car person, so I certainly respect your choice of the M5. BMW makes a fine automobile.
I hope you enjoy your new M5!
OP - you bring up some valid points and at the end of the day, nobody can argue with personal preference. I certainly respect your right to like what you like.
My experience was entirely different. I test drove a Model S in March 2016 and I had a terrible experience at the "store" with my trade-in. I swore I would NEVER own a Tesla. They would NEVER get my $150k (in Canada for a 90D). So, off I went and I test drove everything out there... I was going to teach Elon and Tesla a lesson, they wouldn't soon forget!!! I had resolve... afterall, it was ONLY a car!!! So, off I went and test drove the...
By May of 2017 I was on my computer (by-passing the store) and ordering my beloved Model S. Contrary to your experience, everything else I drove felt old and ancient, like a relic from the past. That's not to say, I didn't miss the perforated and air conditioned leather seats of my Lexus, but compared to the flawless acceleration of an electric over the herky-jerky ICE transmission... game over. Sure there were some things in other cars I prefer over my S and sure my S doesn't have the perfect fit and finish but...
Silence vs. noise?
No smell vs. burning oil, gas pumps and fluid leaks???
Impact on the environment?
Lifetime free supercharging?
Having kids stop and point as a drive by?
For me, it wasn't even close. Frankly, I could never see myself ever going back to ICE, as I would feel like I am going back in time to a distant land, far far away. It just wouldn't seem right.
This weekend, I took my 80 year old Dad, 18 year old nephew and 13 year old son fishing up north in my S and by the end of the trip, I had two full converts (my son was converted a long time ago). To me, there is just nothing like my Tesla.
I don't think it's an accident that at the autoshow, the lineup just to look inside the S was about 30 people long, meanwhile everything I test drove didn't garner more than a glance by the average person in attendance.
Interesting on maintenance cost options: Many posts complaining about Tesla service costs but BMW charges $129 per month (CDN) for a full-service plan including brakes for a 4yr 100,000 km term. That is $6192 over 4 years! Of course people will add that payment into their lease payment and claim they have free service and maintenance. Pretty certain the Tesla will not need brakes in the 4 year period. Now how often will BMW be coming and picking up the M5 for maintenance service and repairs...
I'm not the OP
I love how my local Audi dealer treats me. I can valet my car at the airport when I leave for a trip (I fly frequently), they'll come get it, perform service, and return it. It's so great.
Contrast this to the one time i got valet service from Tesla. Yes, they came to my house in a loaner and took my car away.... but, it took days to coordinate, they were really, really, REALLY late, the loaner looked like it just drove off the Mad Max set, and i was told i would not get valet service for the return. They made sure i knew that this valet service was a one time (and one way) courtesy for all my [then current] car issues. If they wanted to set my expectations as low as possible for future valet possibilities, they did a fine job.
My now standard answer when people ask me how I feel about my Telsa - "I love driving it, hate owning it."
It is impossible to argue with someone's personal experience but what you wrote at the end here really resonates with me.
As I wrote in my earlier post, there are things about my old Lexus I prefered over my Model S and there are a lot of things Tesla could learn from Lexus customer service, but what you wrote at the end about "love driving, hate owning" is something where we part.
For me, the driving experience is soooooooo good, so superior to everything else I've ever driven that I am willing to overlook other areas as trivial.
What I loved about my Lexus was that the reliability was unmatched. I didn't ever need a valet because nothing ever went wrong with it. I believe my only service was that I did brakes once, in 10 years of ownership (and 190,000km). The fit and finish of my car was spectacular but both of those things pale the moment I sit in my S. Whisper quiet, silkly smooth, super fast... just perfect!
I too look past those things in a sense (i still after all, by choice, own a Tesla), but at the same time they are still present in my mind. The driving experience is so fantastic that I put up with crap from Tesla that I would never tolerate from another mfgr, but that doesn't mean those things are forgotten; so yes "it's worth it" but I am very cognizant of the cost. This is why if/when another mfgr comes out with a compelling competitor (maybe the Taycan will be that car, maybe not) I will have a very hard time sticking with Tesla as they exist today. Right now I drive a Tesla because there is no other real alternative for what I want, but there will be a time (maybe 1 year, maybe 5) when that's not the case. And when that time comes, Tesla loses their unique differentiator and become a very tough sell.
I’m reminded of the aphorism about food: You can have cheap, you can have fast, you can have good. Pick 2.
For EVs, right now you can have cutting edge (including range and charging infrastructure), reliability, luxury/amenities, and inexpensive. But you can’t have them all. If you pick Tesla, you get the first two and a smattering of the third.
I’m very happy with my Model S but also acknowledge that for that price, an ICE would give you a lot more in extras and service.
Like a few others here, I’m also anxious to see what Porsche can do with an EV. I anticipate they’ll excel at the luxury stuff but will lag behind Tesla in the other area at first. We’re at the point where everyone (even Tesla) would benefit with some real competition.
That isn't really the way I see it when I post here, or when I read a comment here. Sure a certain percentage of people who might read a comment of mine is going to be new this this forum. But, for the most part I expect roughly the same gang of people.
Where I have some rough idea about what they've posted before, and how they generally see things.
If someone decides that Tesla isn't right for them then I'm likely curious as to why. Maybe they share the same concerns i have or maybe they don't. But, I certainly understand the motivation to say goodbye to a community you've been a part of.
But, why would someone who never posted say goodbye? Who's he saying goodbye to? The BMW M5 is a really nice car. I don't think that takes any explaining.
I acknowledged that the OP had a unique viewpoint. So I did appreciate it even though I found the motivation to do so a little weird. It's not something I would spend my time to do. It's likely mostly valuable to Tesla itself as it gives them feedback on the changes they must make for the 2019 model to maintain their high end customer base.
I'm definitely in agreement with most of that.
I strongly believe that blind spot monitoring will be fixed with V9 release for AP2/AP25 cars, and surround view should come out soon as well. Those are things that even fairly inexpensive cars have on them.
I'll be joining you in getting a Taycan if Tesla hasn't vastly improved the semi-autonomous capabilities. Tesla made a huge bet on autonomous capabilities with how the Model 3 is, and how the Model S refresh seems to be shaping up.
Blind spot monitoring may improve in V9 if the side cameras can detect cars, but that would be for clean cars is perfect California weather only. It won't work well in the rain when the cameras are covered in dirt and rain spray (ever use your backup camera in the rain?).
Surround view is not coming because there is no camera overlooking front bumper, plus the cameras which are there are not full color spectrum, from what people have reverse engineered so far they are b&w or some other spectrum (depends which camera). Sure, one could envision some software system that extrapolates what the windshield camera saw before you pulled up and accounts for your exact position based on the other cameras, but that wouldn't be real time, and my guess would work very poorly (not to mention rather complex software to achieve this - precisely 3d model the environment while driving, then track exact position down to a cm, then render the model in a photo realistic way). Sorry to squash your hopes but software cannot overcome major hardware omissions.
It never occurred to me to stop by enthusiast forms of previous cars and making "goodbye" posts.
I walked out on Titanic, but didn't yell LEO SUCKS, this movie sucks and Cameron should stick to making movies about killer robots in the future on my way out.
Thread will make for an interesting read. Will only see M5's in my rear view mirror but there is 1 pro S and 2 pro M5 that hilariously contradict one another.
Compare the pro/con below and think how much sense they make when taken together.
Software updates are free. Hardware is not. Pretty sure that was clear in my post.
I’ll put my M5 up against your electric minivan on a track any day. The only thing in your rear view mirror will be your non functional wing.
Tesla’s are 0-60 cars. That’s it.