200 Wh/mile to use heater?

[MoreAgain]

The only time I find myself hyper-aware of running as efficiently as possible is on my way to and from my favorite hill-climb on Mt. Palomar South Grade. It is cool being able to actually add range while coming back down the mountain, but on my last trip I still barely made it home. Would not want to get stranded out there!

 

[JeffK]

The only time I find myself hyper-aware of running as efficiently as possible is on my way to and from my favorite hill-climb on Mt. Palomar South Grade. It is cool being able to actually add range while coming back down the mountain, but on my last trip I still barely made it home. Would not want to get stranded out there!

Wow, is there any place to charge? If you barely make it in a RWD LR there's little hope for AWD or performance.

 

[apsen]

What is the obsession with low Wh/mile? Electricity is about a third the cost of gas or less. Did anyone go to these extremes in their previous ICE car ownership where it really mattered? How about seeing how high can we get the Wh/mile. My life time average is 480Wh/mile but I am trying to go for a 500+ record.

Wasting energy is so easy that it is no contest at all. 500? why not 5000? or 50000?

 

[MoreAgain]

The closest Superchargers are either Carlsbad, which is South of where I live, or Temecula, which is North of me. I could have made it to either of them with charge to spare, but decided just to limp home on back roads, staying at low speeds and drafting behind trucks as much as possible.

 

[navguy12]

Depends on the ICE car and other factors....

Example:

My electricity rate is $0.10 per kWh but delivery fees and taxes etc, put this closer to $0.156 / kWh when I get my final bill. There's also a energy loss when charging the vehicle. Let's say charging efficiency is 90%...

It takes me 19.5 kW ( with heat on ) to get to work and back home. 19.5 / 0.9 = 21.666 kWh

21.666 * $0.156 = $3.78 per 50 miles = 0.067 cents per mile in P3D.

By contrast in my old Prius I got 39 mpg. 50 miles / 39 mpg * $2.19 (local price of gas) = $2.81 per 50 miles = 0.056 cents per mile in Prius.

Another take, from Canada (Ontario):

2008 Prius, drove 147,000 kms, total cost for fuel (all sources) was 5.37 cents per km.

Highway driving in the Prius was at 100 kph.

2018 TM3, have driven 18,000 kms, total cost of "fuel" (separate meter on charger circuit, log all uptake ($ & kWh) from all sources, details at this link: Mike's monthly Model 3 efficiency report ) is 3.05 cents per km.

Highway driving in the Tesla is at 120 kph.

So (in Ontario) my cost per km for "fuel" is only about 60% for the Tesla (driven normally) compared to the 08 Prius (driven in mild hypermiler fashion).

Of course, YMMV

 

[JeffK]

Another take, from Canada (Ontario):

2008 Prius, drove 147,000 kms, total cost for fuel (all sources) was 5.37 cents per km.

Highway driving in the Prius was at 100 kph.

2018 TM3, have driven 18,000 kms, total cost of "fuel" (separate meter on charger circuit, log all uptake ($ & kWh) from all sources, details at this link: Mike's monthly Model 3 efficiency report ) is 3.05 cents per km.

Highway driving in the Tesla is at 120 kph.

So (in Ontario) my cost per km for "fuel" is only about 60% for the Tesla (driven normally) compared to the 08 Prius (driven in mild hypermiler fashion).

Of course, YMMV

RWD?

 

[chronopc]

Depends on the ICE car and other factors....

Example:

My electricity rate is $0.10 per kWh but delivery fees and taxes etc, put this closer to $0.156 / kWh when I get my final bill. There's also a energy loss when charging the vehicle. Let's say charging efficiency is 90%...

It takes me 19.5 kW ( with heat on ) to get to work and back home. 19.5 / 0.9 = 21.666 kWh

21.666 * $0.156 = $3.78 per 50 miles = 0.067 cents per mile in P3D.

By contrast in my old Prius I got 39 mpg. 50 miles / 39 mpg * $2.19 (local price of gas) = $2.81 per 50 miles = 0.056 cents per mile in Prius.

Wow gas is very cheap where you live. Gas hasn't been under $3 in CA for like over 15 years.

I have the LR RWD and based on my electricity cost/miles driven I'm averaging less than 4 cents a mile. I only charge off peak and it's about $0.13 per kWh.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What is the obsession with low Wh/mile? Electricity is about a third the cost of gas or less. Did anyone go to these extremes in their previous ICE car ownership where it really mattered? How about seeing how high can we get the Wh/mile. My life time average is 480Wh/mile but I am trying to go for a 500+ record.

I recommend setting climate control to max heat and opening all the windows. Also turn on all the seat heaters to give you that tiny edge on the competition.

 

[SD_MDL3]

The closest Superchargers are either Carlsbad, which is South of where I live, or Temecula, which is North of me. I could have made it to either of them with charge to spare, but decided just to limp home on back roads, staying at low speeds and drafting behind trucks as much as possible.

I too am in San Diego and just got the mid-range version. Question. Did you have to “limp” back home because you were driving aggressively?

I live in Bonita (Chula Vista) and was wondering if I could take a leisurely drive up to Palomar and back on a single charger.

Thanks!

 

[MoreAgain]

I too am in San Diego and just got the mid-range version. Question. Did you have to “limp” back home because you were driving aggressively?

I live in Bonita (Chula Vista) and was wondering if I could take a leisurely drive up to Palomar and back on a single charger.

Thanks!

You should have no problem if start with a high charge level and you take it easy on the way there and back. I had just not planned to go all the way up the the observatory initially, so I was driving too aggressively through some small canyon roads on my way to Palomar.

 

[jsrawa]

I will admit to not using the heat or setting it very low during my 120 mile round trip commute but the car is new to me and I've been trying to maximize efficiently until I have my HPWC from my referral installed, whenever I receive it. It hasn't been too bad even with the frigid temps here the last few days, with the seat heaters its really only my toes that get cold.

 

[navguy12]

RWD?

Yes, RWD with the 18" aeros.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I too am in San Diego and just got the mid-range version. Question. Did you have to “limp” back home because you were driving aggressively?

I live in Bonita (Chula Vista) and was wondering if I could take a leisurely drive up to Palomar and back on a single charger.

Thanks!

You'll be fine. It's only 140 miles round trip on the freeway. The 160 mile route on the back roads might not be much different for range, since you'll be going substantially slower. Just be easy with the heat at least until the return. Keep in mind that going up Palomar will reduce range by about 37 miles (9kWh - it's about 1.5kWh/1000ft for a LEMR with a couple people), but you'll get some of this back on the return (this will all be accounted for in the navigation "energy left when returning to starting point",as long as you take a look at that at home). This route planner isn't the most accurate but there are others around as well.

I'd recommend charging to near 100% prior to this trip to avoid having any issues, just in case you want to do side trips, or you want to keep yourself warm.

There are free chargers in the garage at Valley View Casino, but they're slow and there are just a few. (Details on Plugshare but I think it might be out of date as they've been moving them around due to construction.)

 

[Perry]

Depends on the ICE car and other factors....

Example:

My electricity rate is $0.10 per kWh but delivery fees and taxes etc, put this closer to $0.156 / kWh when I get my final bill. There's also a energy loss when charging the vehicle. Let's say charging efficiency is 90%...

It takes me 19.5 kW ( with heat on ) to get to work and back home. 19.5 / 0.9 = 21.666 kWh

21.666 * $0.156 = $3.78 per 50 miles = 0.067 cents per mile in P3D.

By contrast in my old Prius I got 39 mpg. 50 miles / 39 mpg * $2.19 (local price of gas) = $2.81 per 50 miles = 0.056 cents per mile in Prius.

I was talking more about electric car vs strictly ICE car. Some hybrids might be an exception.

 

[JeffK]

Even with that it is still less to fuel a full electric car than an ICE car. Maybe some hibrids might be an exception.

Some hybrids meaning an old 2007 Prius and anything better than 39 mpg (even non-hybrids) at Midwest gasoline prices will be cheaper per mile than my P3D in the winter.

But hey, P3D is way more fun to drive so it's worth it.

Yes, RWD with the 18" aeros.

Ah, makes sense.

 

[Perry]

Wasting energy is so easy that it is no contest at all. 500? why not 5000? or 50000?

Actually its quite a challenge doing it strictly through aggressive driving and not through AC or heating.

 

[apsen]

Actually its quite a challenge doing it strictly through aggressive driving and not through AC or heating.

AC is for wimps - heating on HI all year round!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Actually its quite a challenge doing it strictly through aggressive driving and not through AC or heating.

Please report on your tire wear! We need the data points to add it to the correlation of Wh/mi lifetime average and miles on the tires before replacement.

 

[ElGuapoGuano]

The heater is the main source of increased wh/mi for sure. I don't have a long commute to work and don't usually take road trips in the winter, so I'm good to go. My Summertime 220 wh/mi has become more like 330 wh/mi. But I'm warm and still taking people off the line like it's nobody's business.

 

[SSedan]

Short trips don't give time to cabin/battery temp time to stabilize so it makes energy use spike always working hard to bring temp up. Once you get to maintenance level heating it will consume less.