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2017.28
- Thread starter MarcusMaximus
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- Model S
No, I think they're implying that a demo typically can be done much easier than an actual deployment of technology... usually because the environment for the demo can be controlled optimized for prior to demo'ing... whereas "real world" deployment will always have many more variables (some you can control, most you cannot).
I have the 2017.28 f/w version as of last night. Went for a 200km drive today. Still ping-pong. I don't really mind that. What I wish they would do is increase the max 70kph autosteer speed to 90kph or something. A bunch of highways near my home are 80kph, and I cannot use autosteer on them, as yet.
Also, my speed limit signs are still reading 161kph in a 100. This is a known bug. So, they are multiplying the kph by the mph to kph conversion factor, in other words, doing the conversion twice. It's the same error for all speed limit signs.
Intersection handling seems to be a little less "crazy driver" than it used to be. Definitely still need vigilance and attention when the markings disappear, but it seems to be better than before. And of course the lane changing is perfect now. I'm very happy with this update the progress being made!
cruiserlarry
Gadgetologist
Update since my last post:
I took a longer road trip today (about 100 miles) on a different route, and the car was spot on using AP for 95% of the ride....it still has no love for any type of divider wall, so as long as I stayed out of the carpool lane, or the far right lane where there were construction dividers, all was good - felt very smooth, like the AP1 car I had previously. Had one major issue slowing down for traffic ahead - would have slammed into the vehicle in front of me if I let AP do it alone...it started to slow, than released the brake, and repeated this again until I couldn't take the chance...but the vehicle in front was virtually stopped, so it may be the same issue TACC and AP have had with stopped vehicles in the past. Lane changes, which have always been very good, were spot on as well. So, maybe there is some real-time learning going on.
I'll know when I get back on my usual route tomorrow morning....
I took a longer road trip today (about 100 miles) on a different route, and the car was spot on using AP for 95% of the ride....it still has no love for any type of divider wall, so as long as I stayed out of the carpool lane, or the far right lane where there were construction dividers, all was good - felt very smooth, like the AP1 car I had previously. Had one major issue slowing down for traffic ahead - would have slammed into the vehicle in front of me if I let AP do it alone...it started to slow, than released the brake, and repeated this again until I couldn't take the chance...but the vehicle in front was virtually stopped, so it may be the same issue TACC and AP have had with stopped vehicles in the past. Lane changes, which have always been very good, were spot on as well. So, maybe there is some real-time learning going on.
I'll know when I get back on my usual route tomorrow morning....
I think a good anology is a hollywood movie set. When you ride down the street in a movie studio you see what looks like a typical street bank, barber shop, etc "the video". Once you go around the corner, however, you see that what you thought was a town was just a facade. Those impressive building fronts had nothing behind them.
They sold me the building and now they are constructing it. The problem is I was lead to believe the construction was nearly done on EAP. Work seemed well progressed on FSD. The "video" reinforced that belief.
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Reiterating 100 miles later on 2017.28, great update for sure!
Highs:
- Highway driving I would be willing to call silky smooth. Negotiates every curve on my commute much like a human driver. Honestly, not even AP1 did this well — there were stretches of CA-85 on my commute where AP1 would depart its lane around curves if I didn't slow down below the speed limit. AP2 handles it like a champ
- Speed and distance regulation is how I'd want it to be. Now, it aggressively maintains the distance buffer you command, which may involve smoothly ramping to max regen. As a side effect, now, I find distance "2" is more appropriate for rush hour distance to prevent cut-ins. Same as my favorite AP1 setting. But this kind of behavior buys more human confidence that the system is reacting to changes in traffic. Previously, the "smoothness" TACC offered was at the expense of briefly disobeying the following distance setting in sudden changes, which leaves you in the dilemma of either taking over frequently or taking a leap of faith that the car will brake in time.
Lows:
- City driving is still kind of meh. Mildly improved lane tracking through intersections but still nowhere near AP1's ability to do so. Even with a lead car, it's still much too eager to trust (crappy) lane line recognition and jerk the steering rather than just trusting the lead car.
- New bug since 17.26: If you engage Autosteer at a standstill while only 1 lane line is detected, you're immediately greeted to a TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY alarm. Took me a while to find the pattern, but this appears to be it.
Other Comments:
TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY now shows up both in the IC and as a popup window on the CID. That seems new.
Highs:
- Highway driving I would be willing to call silky smooth. Negotiates every curve on my commute much like a human driver. Honestly, not even AP1 did this well — there were stretches of CA-85 on my commute where AP1 would depart its lane around curves if I didn't slow down below the speed limit. AP2 handles it like a champ
- Speed and distance regulation is how I'd want it to be. Now, it aggressively maintains the distance buffer you command, which may involve smoothly ramping to max regen. As a side effect, now, I find distance "2" is more appropriate for rush hour distance to prevent cut-ins. Same as my favorite AP1 setting. But this kind of behavior buys more human confidence that the system is reacting to changes in traffic. Previously, the "smoothness" TACC offered was at the expense of briefly disobeying the following distance setting in sudden changes, which leaves you in the dilemma of either taking over frequently or taking a leap of faith that the car will brake in time.
Lows:
- City driving is still kind of meh. Mildly improved lane tracking through intersections but still nowhere near AP1's ability to do so. Even with a lead car, it's still much too eager to trust (crappy) lane line recognition and jerk the steering rather than just trusting the lead car.
- New bug since 17.26: If you engage Autosteer at a standstill while only 1 lane line is detected, you're immediately greeted to a TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY alarm. Took me a while to find the pattern, but this appears to be it.
Other Comments:
TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY now shows up both in the IC and as a popup window on the CID. That seems new.
I've now seen several times where it correctly responded to a stopped car far ahead/around a curve and several where it wasn't, and think I've found a pattern: every time it failed to react correctly was when the car I was approaching was after a lane split(so, I'm approaching the lane split and will end up in the lane with the other car). I'm guessing it has problems knowing ahead of time which lane it's going to end up in, or maybe even seeing the split.
Now.. now.. lets not go overboard here. IMO AP1 is everything you would want on a highway. There is nothing to do better than that.
When Steve Jobs demoed the first iPhone, it was so buggy that he had to show each feature in a specific order or the phone would crash. He also had a few phones ready to be swapped in case one crashes. Not only was it not faked, it completely changed the world.
No, this is honestly based off personal experience, on a route that I literally travel every morning. Areas like this with curves + hills + worn out lane lines: Google Maps. There's also another bridge a mile north (at the El Camino Real intersection) where AP1 frequently departs or throws a TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY because a curve + worn out lane line coincides with direct sunlight before the bridge and a shadow under the bridge.
AP1 would actually frequently depart the lane even with other cars nearby. Was really bad on the initial 8.0 release but improved a little in 8.1. Nonetheless I've lodged multiple complaints to Tesla service for this stretch of road on AP1. It's one of those roads where the left and right lane markers frequently bounce in and out of recognition, and when it goes out of recognition, the car will make a sudden correction to "re-center" but that makes things worse around curves with cars nearby.
IMO if you live in a flat environment, AP1 is basically everything that you'd want on a highway. But driving on hilly terrain with worn out lane markers, it is my honest opinion that AP2 recently became better than AP1 at this task due primarily to its quick recognition versus AP1's 1-2 second lag to rebuild its belief of the lane lines after not being able to see the road ahead. And AP2's cameras do seem better at HDR and can deal with simultaneous glare + shadows much better than AP1's.
Not faked. But a demo will always be done in a controlled environment, with random unexpected variables reduced to as close to zero as possible. Demos always work, by design. Product, on the other hand, has to be at sufficient readiness to deal with the random unexpected variables. That takes a lot more work. An automotive product involved in safety has to go further, accumulating many miles of real world operation to determine that not only does it work, but is durable and robust to many real world threats (from the obvious shock/vibration/heat/cold issues, to electronic interference, to unexpected road conditions (markings, etc.), to weird driver behaviors, etc. etc.). Demo level systems aren't near that. Beta level systems such as the Tesla AP2 are better than demo, but have not achieved all the above. We're helping Tesla by driving them in the real world, whether you expected to be a beta tester or not. (We did all click the acknowledgement, though.)
(Speaking as someone who is leading engineering for an advanced automotive automation product, that isn't a Tesla (or nvidia) product...)
This just happened to me while driving around during lunch. I was behind a car, the car slowed for a red and mine followed, and then right at the very end - PANIC MODE. My brother was in the car with me and we kind of just looked at it for a while before figuring out that certain death was imminent even though we were all stopped at a light. My brother thought maybe it had lost sight of the car because it was white.
I noticed while driving with 2017.28 AP2 update that the symbol for the steer wheel in the drivers display will rotate as the steer wheel does when auto steer is active. I don't know if this happened on previous versions. Nice little touch.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
If what you are stating is true, I am going to be very upset. As an AP1 user, I feel cheated. Everyday I used to pop-in here and brag about how AP1 is better, and now if I can't do that, that has a yuge emotional impact !
Perhaps a coincidence, but the second vehicle that I had a problem with was also white.
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