2020.12.5.6: Traffic Light & Stop Sign Control

[Mastequila]

If that were their position, then Tesla would be limiting divided highway speeds and TACC to the speed limit as well

No it wouldn't. Completely different concepts here. Lots of manufacturer's have TACC or some version very similarn adaptive cruise control, etc. Stopping at stop signs and redlights is a giant step towards full self driving. As you move towards full self driving, the will be less human input and supervision.

Do you think there are more accidents on the highway or at intersections? That's the answer as to why it's different.

 

[TT97]

No it wouldn't. Completely different concepts here. Lots of manufacturer's have TACC or some version very similarn adaptive cruise control, etc. Stopping at stop signs and redlights is a giant step towards full self driving. As you move towards full self driving, the will be less human input and supervision.

Do you think there are more accidents on the highway or at intersections? That's the answer as to why it's different.

So all the manufacturers should limit their similar version to the speed limit.

While you may think it is a completely different concept, it is still SAE Level 2 and the driver is 100% responsible so from a "legal perspective," there is zero difference between this system and all the other Level 2 systems available. Once it becomes truly self driving they may have different views, but for now, there is no difference.

 

[C141medic]

Very interesting video from @DirtyT3sla :

 

[Mastequila]

So all the manufacturers should limit their similar version to the speed limit.

While you may think it is a completely different concept, it is still SAE Level 2 and the driver is 100% responsible so from a "legal perspective," there is zero difference between this system and all the other Level 2 systems available. Once it becomes truly self driving they may have different views, but for now, there is no difference.

You're misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting all manufacturers limit their similar systems. There are no similar systems to this new update.

This is a first of its kind system. Designed specifically for the most dangerous areas on our roads. Where tons of accidents and fatalities occur. Believe it or not intersections make up a small part of our vast roadways but have the highest concentration of accidents.

Do you also know one of the first factors the law (police, lawyers, judges) looks at the determine fault? You guessed it, speed. So here comes tesla, designing a system to go right in the most accident prone area and you think they're going to allow their system to break the law? Come on man. I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm not saying you have to think it's convenient. All I'm saying is use your brain. It makes complete sense.

 

[TT97]

You're misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting all manufacturers limit their similar systems. There are no similar systems to this new update.

This is a first of its kind system. Designed specifically for the most dangerous areas on our roads. Where tons of accidents and fatalities occur. Believe it or not intersections make up a small part of our vast roadways but have the highest concentration of accidents.

Do you also know one of the first factors the law (police, lawyers, judges) looks at the determine fault? You guessed it, speed. So here comes tesla, designing a system to go right in the most accident prone area and you think they're going to allow their system to break the law? Come on man. I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm not saying you have to think it's convenient. All I'm saying is use your brain. It makes complete sense.

I wasn't suggesting all manufacturing limit their systems either, my point is that if you believe the reason Tesla is limiting the system to the speed limit because they don't want the system to break the law, then they would have also nerfed all their systems - why would they have an issue with one of their systems breaking the law but have no issue with their other systems breaking the law? TACC (without autopilot engaged) has no speed limit restrictions (under 90 mph) yet travels through the same intersections.

My point is that they are not limiting the speed because of liability issues but it has more to do with other concerns they may have.

As it is, I rarely use auto pilot off the freeways as 5 mph above the speed limit is so much slower than the rest of traffic, and compounded by the issue of how many times the database speed limits are slower than the posted speed limits (especially in L.A. where speed limits are adjusted regularly on streets). I have no interest in trying out the system at the speed limit (I have also driven 31.95 miles for the month of April so don't when I will be driving again). Once it is SAE Level 4/5 and I can be working on my laptop while the car is driving me, then I will not care if I am holding everyone else up.

 

[FSDComplete]

Here’s my video testing it out!

 

[Garlan Garner]

Here’s my video testing it out!

This feature isn't responding to colors.

It will stop if the light is green, yellow or red.

You can tell that the driver hit the accelerator to allow the car to go through the light.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Very interesting video from @DirtyT3sla :

Did this guy read the instructions? Its stopping at every light....no matter what color the light is. That's the way it works (right now).

 

[DrtyJrze]

You're misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting all manufacturers limit their similar systems. There are no similar systems to this new update.

This is a first of its kind system. Designed specifically for the most dangerous areas on our roads. Where tons of accidents and fatalities occur. Believe it or not intersections make up a small part of our vast roadways but have the highest concentration of accidents.

Do you also know one of the first factors the law (police, lawyers, judges) looks at the determine fault? You guessed it, speed. So here comes tesla, designing a system to go right in the most accident prone area and you think they're going to allow their system to break the law? Come on man. I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm not saying you have to think it's convenient. All I'm saying is use your brain. It makes complete sense.

There are so many holes in your logic I could drive a Tesla semi through it, lol. I’ll disengage and let others talk in circles with you. I’m not that bored.

You’re the person who thinks they’re the smartest in the room, but those of us with common sense listen to you talk and silently laugh.

 

[willow_hiller]

Did this guy read the instructions? Its stopping at every light....no matter what color the light is. That's the way it works (right now)

I don't have the feature myself, but my understanding was that green/yellow light stops are overrideable, where it's expecting you to press the accelerator or watt pedal to proceed. But red lights are not overrideable, right? Even if you step on the accelerator before a red light it will still stop?

 

[diamond.g]

I don't have the feature myself, but my understanding was that green/yellow light stops are overrideable, where it's expecting you to press the accelerator or watt pedal to proceed. But red lights are not overrideable, right? Even if you step on the accelerator before a red light it will still stop?

IIRC pressing the accelerator overrides TACC regardless of the situation, so I would expect the vehicle to blow right through the red light if it is pressed.

 

[Mastequila]

I wasn't suggesting all manufacturing limit their systems either, my point is that if you believe the reason Tesla is limiting the system to the speed limit because they don't want the system to break the law, then they would have also nerfed all their systems - why would they have an issue with one of their systems breaking the law but have no issue with their other systems breaking the law? TACC (without autopilot engaged) has no speed limit restrictions (under 90 mph) yet travels through the same intersections.

My point is that they are not limiting the speed because of liability issues but it has more to do with other concerns they may have.

As it is, I rarely use auto pilot off the freeways as 5 mph above the speed limit is so much slower than the rest of traffic, and compounded by the issue of how many times the database speed limits are slower than the posted speed limits (especially in L.A. where speed limits are adjusted regularly on streets). I have no interest in trying out the system at the speed limit (I have also driven 31.95 miles for the month of April so don't when I will be driving again). Once it is SAE Level 4/5 and I can be working on my laptop while the car is driving me, then I will not care if I am holding everyone else up.

Off topic, but I suggest driving. It's quite an experience to drive in Southern California with the light traffic. I've made several road trips, I just don't get out of the car. I truly didn't realize how close downtown LA was until I made it there in less than 30 minutes from a place it normally take 90!

 

[MarcG]

I don't have the feature myself, but my understanding was that green/yellow light stops are overrideable, where it's expecting you to press the accelerator or watt pedal to proceed. But red lights are not overrideable, right? Even if you step on the accelerator before a red light it will still stop?

Correct. I mean you can keep pressing the accelerator continuously before you reach a red light or stop sign, but it will yell at you as you’re about to cross it, just like it did before this release. Or if you keep tapping the accelerator and let it go, as if you would to tell it you want to proceed for a green light, it will press/slam on the brakes to try stopping the car before the red line, similar to how it behaves when following another car.

Conversely, if you use the gear stalk to indicate that you want to proceed, it will just ignore you when approaching a stop sign or red light. I’m not sure about yellow lights yet, haven’t done enough testing. I wonder if it lets you proceed on yellow but tries stopping when it turns to red, if there’s enough time to do so safely. Knowledge of how long a yellow light lasts vs travel speed might be useful, but that’s getting complicated for Tesla.

 

[JeffnReno]

Oh that's pretty cool! Learn something new every day...

Don't worry as 12.6 removes it anyway.

 

[strangethingintheland]

I’m not sure about yellow lights yet, haven’t done enough testing. I wonder if it lets you proceed on yellow but tries stopping when it turns to red, if there’s enough time to do so safely. Knowledge of how long a yellow light lasts vs travel speed might be useful, but that’s getting complicated for Tesla.

Based on my two days of testing, after tap confirming a green light, another tap is requested and required if the light subsequently turns yellow. That second tap is overridden if light subsequently turns red. Then the car must come to a full stop before a tap allows you to proceed.

this is the gist of the behavior. I say that because I found it surprisingly difficult to tease out the exact nature of the green yellow red sequence after initially tapping during the green phase. One has to approach a lot of lights to observe all of the scenario tree.

while I’m writing, I confirm that it also stops at T intersections even if there is no stop sign.

 

[C141medic]

More from Teslarati:

Tesla owners with the new Traffic Light update are revealing some interesting experiences

 

[C141medic]

I don’t have the update yet but my thoughts are:

1. The FW, in its current form, has the potential of getting rear ended especially if it aggressively slows down when the light is green and the user hasn’t applied the override quickly enough. I know people are supposed to maintain a safe following distance both front and rear but unfortunately this isn’t always the case.

2. If you’re at a red light, with the feature active, will it allow you to override and go through the red light in an emergency? I’m from NY and many times when I used to drive in the city there were instances where you have to proceed through a red light to let emergency vehicles through.

I’m definitely going to test it when I receive the FW but not sure yet if I’ll leave it enabled. I like the auto stopping at stop signs but uncertain about usability at traffic lights in its current form. My two cents.

 

[wtwieder]

It didn’t stop for a green light that turned yellow which is good!
Here’s my video

No it is not good. When you cancel the slow down too soon before getting to a green or yellow light, if that light then changes to red, the car will not automatically stop for the light, as you might expect. You would then run the red light and possibly cause an accident.

 

[willow_hiller]

No it is not good. When you cancel the slow down too soon before getting to a green or yellow light, if that light then changes to red, the car will not automatically stop for the light, as you might expect. You would then run the red light and possibly cause an accident.

This might warrant more testing. The camera is tracking the line where the intersection begins, and it knows how fast it is going, it could be determining whether it has enough time to safely stop when determining what to do with a yellow.

 

[john5520]

I don’t have the update yet but my thoughts are:

2. If you’re at a red light, with the feature active, will it allow you to override and go through the red light in an emergency? I’m from NY and many times when I used to drive in the city there were instances where you have to proceed through a red light to let emergency vehicles through.

In this case, you'd probably want to disable AP, then proceed.