'22 MX Plaid buyback

[mickaphely]

I bought my 22MXP technically used since the reservation holder couldn't sell me the reservation. But it went into my name at 1,000 miles and been in the Service center for one specific issue since 3,000 miles 6 times. The last visit they said the issue is still there, they can't fix it, they sent it to tesla engineering.
Car has 11,000 miles now but the issue was first reported at 3,000 miles.

I asked the service center to buy it back and they supposedly sent in a request but it's been dragging on.

Does anyone know typically what's the turnaround time for that? Do you know how much they'll offer me for the buyback?

TIA

 

[richyrich]

Ouch. If it were me I'd keep it friendly and ask them specifically what the process is, who it's gone to etc, just so you know where you are. I don't think many people will have much insight into the process yours will follow, and indeed that process can change over time.

What's the issue? Sounds odd they can't fix something in six visits - is there a subjective element to it?

 

[jebinc]

I bought my 22MXP technically used since the reservation holder couldn't sell me the reservation. But it went into my name at 1,000 miles and been in the Service center for one specific issue since 3,000 miles 6 times. The last visit they said the issue is still there, they can't fix it, they sent it to tesla engineering.
Car has 11,000 miles now but the issue was first reported at 3,000 miles.

I asked the service center to buy it back and they supposedly sent in a request but it's been dragging on.

Does anyone know typically what's the turnaround time for that? Do you know how much they'll offer me for the buyback?

TIA

Ask @WilliamG

 

[WilliamG]

Ask @WilliamG

I don't believe buybacks can be done with used vehicles. I'm no expert on that, but I believe that to be the case.

 

[holeydonut]

I don't believe buybacks can be done with used vehicles. I'm no expert on that, but I believe that to be the case.

Yeah the laws differ state by state... probably need an actual lawyer to determine the owner's rights. In California, the lemon law applies to new and used cars as long as the time is within the original manufacturer's warranty. Basically the manufacturer cannot shed the lemon law liability just because someone re-sells the vehicle when under the original warranty. But in some other states, the lemon law only applies to new vehicles sold through an authorized new car dealer.

I'm researching the topic myself for California in case my 2023 Model X eats crap again with stupid electric gremlins. That is, assuming I ever get to drive it again. Not even 500 miles and I'm catching an earful already (edit: obviously not from TMC users; you all love Teslas) about how stupid I was to buy it.

I wouldn't mind a Tesla-sized mulligan if they sent this gremlin-car into the loaner-bin. Tesla has a lot of cars in inventory. Right? Heh.

 

[gearchruncher]

This isn't a buyback case. This is lemon law, and the WA law is clear here (as someone that has actually done a lemon law buyback in WA).
You really need to read this : General Lemon Law | Washington State

First, the WA Lemon Law doesn't care if you are the first owner or 15th. So you're good there. It covers the car for 30 months, 24k miles.

Second, You don't need a lawyer or anything. But you do need to be active about it, and file a demand with Tesla. You don't wait for them. Your timers start when YOU send a certified letter to Tesla demanding repurchase or replacement. Then you wait 40 days. Then you go to arbitration.

This arbitration is through the WA Attorney General's office and is free. They will hear both sides and decide if this is a valid lemon law claim. Here's the form:

https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Home/Safeguarding_Consumers/Lemon_Law/General_Lemon_Law/RFAform2016_0_18.pdf

In my experience, Tesla won't want to get to that point, and will offer you a reasonable buyback, but only after the see you are serious enough to file with the arbitration board. You can come up with your own number, but on a car as expensive as an MXP, a good rule of thumb would be $1 per mile up until the defect was first reported. So if the car was $100K + $10K tax, and you drove 10K miles, you'd get $100K back (they specifically owe you the tax back).

The fun part here is that you can easily argue the "reasonable use" mileage stops when you first reported the defect. So you can just keep using the car until they buy it back or replace it for "free" - so them dragging their feet at that point is on them, not you.

 

[WilliamG]

This isn't a buyback case. This is lemon law, and the WA law is clear here (as someone that has actually done a lemon law buyback in WA).
You really need to read this : General Lemon Law | Washington State

First, the WA Lemon Law doesn't care if you are the first owner or 15th. So you're good there. It covers the car for 30 months, 24k miles.

Second, You don't need a lawyer or anything. But you do need to be active about it, and file a demand with Tesla. You don't wait for them. Your timers start when YOU send a certified letter to Tesla demanding repurchase or replacement. Then you wait 40 days. Then you go to arbitration.

This arbitration is through the WA Attorney General's office and is free. They will hear both sides and decide if this is a valid lemon law claim. Here's the form:

https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Home/Safeguarding_Consumers/Lemon_Law/General_Lemon_Law/RFAform2016_0_18.pdf

In my experience, Tesla won't want to get to that point, and will offer you a reasonable buyback, but only after the see you are serious enough to file with the arbitration board. You can come up with your own number, but on a car as expensive as an MXP, a good rule of thumb would be $1 per mile up until the defect was first reported. So if the car was $100K + $10K tax, and you drove 10K miles, you'd get $100K back (they specifically owe you the tax back).

The fun part here is that you can easily argue the "reasonable use" mileage stops when you first reported the defect. So you can just keep using the car until they buy it back or replace it for "free" - so them dragging their feet at that point is on them, not you.

I'm in WA. Tesla did not provide me the tax back, - just an FYI, when they did the buyback of my 2021 Plaid. Now, I did trade in a car at the time to get said Plaid, so the sales tax wasn't so terrible (and they made it up to me in other ways as best they could), but there wasn't a way to refund the tax, for whatever reason.

 

[MP3Mike]

But it went into my name at 1,000 miles and been in the Service center for one specific issue since 3,000 miles 6 times. The last visit they said the issue is still there, they can't fix it, they sent it to tesla engineering.

What is that issue? Given that you have driven it 8k miles with the issue would it really qualify as “substantially impairing” the use of the vehicle? (Which appears to be required for a Washington lemon law claim.)

 

[WilliamG]

What is that issue? Given that you have driven it 8k miles with the issue would it really qualify as “substantially impairing” the use of the vehicle? (Which appears to be required for a Washington lemon law claim.)

Yep that's another one. It's complicated to get a buy back, and takes a lot of work. I wouldn't want to do it again.

 

[gearchruncher]

Tesla did not provide me the tax back, - just an FYI, when they did the buyback of my 2021 Plaid. Now, I did trade in a car at the time to get said Plaid, so the sales tax wasn't so terrible (and they made it up to me in other ways as best they could), but there wasn't a way to refund the tax, for whatever reason.

That's just Tesla being Tesla, but there is absolutely a way for them to refund your sales tax. They just write you a check for it. It's not your problem how the accounting works internally. They did it for me no problem. But I had also made it 100% clear to them that I'd take the case to the WA arbitration path no problem, and the law was clear here what they owed me.

Here's the thing- Tesla hates being forced down the lemon law path as the car itself ends up with a branded title. So almost everyone ends up with a "buyback" - and during this, that's just a private negotiation between you and Tesla. Which is fine. But you have to know that you have the full lemon law at your back, and if you're not happy with Tesla's offer you don't have to take it. I personally wasn't willing to just let $12K+ in tax and registration slide (don't forget that $1K+ registration in Seattle), but we all have our own logic and reasons during a buyback process. And not every buyback is for a clear lemon law issue.

Yep that's another one. It's complicated to get a buy back, and takes a lot of work. I wouldn't want to do it again.

Every situation is different, but I just sent them a letter requesting a buyback or replacement with my repair records, waited 40 days, sent the letter to the AG and Tesla, had a few phone calls with Tesla, and then dropped it off at one of their locations. Probably less than 4 hours total work. The letter to the AG following the WA Lemon Law process is really the key and lets them know you are serious and know your rights. It's a uniquely pro-consumer process in WA.

 

[WilliamG]

That's just Tesla being Tesla, but there is absolutely a way for them to refund your sales tax. They just write you a check for it. It's not your problem how the accounting works internally. They did it for me no problem. But I had also made it 100% clear to them that I'd take the case to the WA arbitration path no problem, and the law was clear here what they owed me.

Here's the thing- Tesla hates being forced down the lemon law path as the car itself ends up with a branded title. So almost everyone ends up with a "buyback" - and during this, that's just a private negotiation between you and Tesla. Which is fine. But you have to know that you have the full lemon law at your back, and if you're not happy with Tesla's offer you don't have to take it. I personally wasn't willing to just let $12K+ in tax and registration slide (don't forget that $1K+ registration in Seattle), but we all have our own logic and reasons during a buyback process. And not every buyback is for a clear lemon law issue.


Every situation is different, but I just sent them a letter requesting a buyback or replacement with my repair records, waited 40 days, sent the letter to the AG and Tesla, had a few phone calls with Tesla, and then dropped it off at one of their locations. Probably less than 4 hours total work. The letter to the AG following the WA Lemon Law process is really the key and lets them know you are serious and know your rights. It's a uniquely pro-consumer process in WA.

I got 98% of my money back for my 2021, so I'm not too bothered. I also paid $0 for mileage (and yes, I got the registration fees back). Yes, I'm sure there's always a better way to do things, but I was okay with the way it ended up for me. It was about $6k in taxes I didn't get back directly, but they made it up to me in other ways I won't get into.

 

[jebinc]

Yep that's another one. It's complicated to get a buy back, and takes a lot of work. I wouldn't want to do it again.

I tried, and failed. Was quite a “souring” experience.

 

[jebinc]

That's just Tesla being Tesla, but there is absolutely a way for them to refund your sales tax. They just write you a check for it. It's not your problem how the accounting works internally. They did it for me no problem. But I had also made it 100% clear to them that I'd take the case to the WA arbitration path no problem, and the law was clear here what they owed me.

Here's the thing- Tesla hates being forced down the lemon law path as the car itself ends up with a branded title. So almost everyone ends up with a "buyback" - and during this, that's just a private negotiation between you and Tesla. Which is fine. But you have to know that you have the full lemon law at your back, and if you're not happy with Tesla's offer you don't have to take it. I personally wasn't willing to just let $12K+ in tax and registration slide (don't forget that $1K+ registration in Seattle), but we all have our own logic and reasons during a buyback process. And not every buyback is for a clear lemon law issue.


Every situation is different, but I just sent them a letter requesting a buyback or replacement with my repair records, waited 40 days, sent the letter to the AG and Tesla, had a few phone calls with Tesla, and then dropped it off at one of their locations. Probably less than 4 hours total work. The letter to the AG following the WA Lemon Law process is really the key and lets them know you are serious and know your rights. It's a uniquely pro-consumer process in WA.

Truth.

 

[mickaphely]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I didn't think I got any reply since I didn't get email notifications.
In any case, the car right now has 11k miles and Tesla just got back to me and wants to charge me $15k for those miles. I asked that they reconsider since I have reported this issue when the car had only 3k miles. The reason why it has more miles now is because I continued on driving it in between the additional 5 service visits from the first service visit. Alot of times I would message them as I am leaving the parking lot of the service center telling them the issue is still there and they said to drive alittle and see if it goes away. When it didn't disappear I had to wait weeks again for another service visit and the milage kept going up.

 

[mickaphely]

Ouch. If it were me I'd keep it friendly and ask them specifically what the process is, who it's gone to etc, just so you know where you are. I don't think many people will have much insight into the process yours will follow, and indeed that process can change over time.

What's the issue? Sounds odd they can't fix something in six visits - is there a subjective element to it?

I am definitely friendly and to be honest they're very friendly and understanding. The service advisor manager is probably the best advisor i have ever worked with and i have had 4 Teslas since 2018.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have 3 kids and I got tired of having to swap 3 car seats in and out of loaners and then my car, I would have probably tried afew more times To get them to fix it.

 

[mickaphely]

This isn't a buyback case. This is lemon law, and the WA law is clear here (as someone that has actually done a lemon law buyback in WA).
You really need to read this : General Lemon Law | Washington State

First, the WA Lemon Law doesn't care if you are the first owner or 15th. So you're good there. It covers the car for 30 months, 24k miles.

Second, You don't need a lawyer or anything. But you do need to be active about it, and file a demand with Tesla. You don't wait for them. Your timers start when YOU send a certified letter to Tesla demanding repurchase or replacement. Then you wait 40 days. Then you go to arbitration.

This arbitration is through the WA Attorney General's office and is free. They will hear both sides and decide if this is a valid lemon law claim. Here's the form:

https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Home/Safeguarding_Consumers/Lemon_Law/General_Lemon_Law/RFAform2016_0_18.pdf

In my experience, Tesla won't want to get to that point, and will offer you a reasonable buyback, but only after the see you are serious enough to file with the arbitration board. You can come up with your own number, but on a car as expensive as an MXP, a good rule of thumb would be $1 per mile up until the defect was first reported. So if the car was $100K + $10K tax, and you drove 10K miles, you'd get $100K back (they specifically owe you the tax back).

The fun part here is that you can easily argue the "reasonable use" mileage stops when you first reported the defect. So you can just keep using the car until they buy it back or replace it for "free" - so them dragging their feet at that point is on them, not you.

Thanks for all the info, so the car has 11k miles right now and at no point did they ever solve it and I been going back to them since then. I reported the issue originally in August of 2022 at 3k miles and it is documented in the Service Document from then. Do you think it would be reasonable to ask them to take off only $3k for miles at the first report rather than the $15k they want to take off?

 

[MP3Mike]

I would have probably tried afew more times To get them to fix it.

What are they having a problem fixing?

 

[mickaphely]

What are they having a problem fixing?

Vibration under any type of acceleration and some grinding like noise at freeway speed. They've tried some type of motor fluid change and half shafts but neither fixed it.

 

[mickaphely]

To add more context, in the last service request they did say problem still exists, sent to Tesla engineering and they will let me know when they hear back without any actual repair.

 

[WilliamG]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I didn't think I got any reply since I didn't get email notifications.
In any case, the car right now has 11k miles and Tesla just got back to me and wants to charge me $15k for those miles. I asked that they reconsider since I have reported this issue when the car had only 3k miles. The reason why it has more miles now is because I continued on driving it in between the additional 5 service visits from the first service visit. Alot of times I would message them as I am leaving the parking lot of the service center telling them the issue is still there and they said to drive alittle and see if it goes away. When it didn't disappear I had to wait weeks again for another service visit and the milage kept going up.

You can try and fight it some more, but considering all the price drops after the purchase, I'd guess, you can probably pick up a new one for less than the check they write you anyway.