5 years worth of subscription = buying it

[davidalindsey]

I currently have EAP purchased so I just rent FSD for $99 and on the latest beta.
To me it's definitely not worth the $200 subscription.
$99 is more manageable.
But sometimes I do wonder if it's worth just paying the $6,000 purchase price to have FSD outright or just continue subscribing for $99,
I really wish there was kind of a rent to own model where if your subscription price exceeded the current amount of purchase price they should just let you have it on that vehicle.
That would be amazing

 

[andyzdeman]

What benefits? It’s not like hw3 owners with FSD gets hw4…

Read my post

I'm sure HW5 and HW6 will also perform better than HW4, maybe even allowing for real FSD. But it's likely not upgradeable even if you pay for it. Just like HW3 to HW4. Elon already has your money. He doesn't care about offering HW upgrades (even if you pay for it) when he can convince some to buy an entirely new car instead.

You are right - I do not appreciate it.

Missed the point. You get upgrades on the hardware if you have fully paid FSD. You don’t if it’s sub.

 

[spacecoin]

Read my post

Missed the point. You get upgrades on the hardware if you have fully paid FSD. You don’t if it’s sub.

That was the idea, then Elon f-ed us all. didn’t you get the memo? try listening to the quarterly reports? hw3 won’t be upgraded to hw4.

 

[andyzdeman]

That was the idea, then Elon f-ed us all. didn’t you get the memo? try listening to the quarterly reports? hw3 won’t be upgraded to hw4.

Did I say it would be upgraded to an entirely now HW, no.
Dear god, people on here don't read posts. I said the cameras were upgraded 5 years after purchase for free. That's pretty good.

Expecting HW to be upgraded to an entirely new system when your car could be 5-8 years old is pretty ridiculous. Of course there will be limitations. My point if anyone cared to read it was that there are benefits to getting fully paid FSD over subscription that others are considering when doing the maths, that's it. Everyone stop quoting me and replying irrelevant *sugar* to my pretty simple first statement.

 

[spacecoin]

Everyone stop quoting me and replying irrelevant *sugar* to my pretty simple first statement.

Stop being delusional? You need to realize you are completely wrong.

You have zero evidence for your fan fantasy. Tesla hasn't upgraded anything for the last 4-5 years. HW2 -> HW2.5 was a special case. That was for cars made before 2019...

You get absolutely nothing for buying FSD upfront except walked backed promises and a hole in your bank account.

 

[DavidPetr.]

@andyzdeman , check out my post from a year ago - Does buying FSD include hardware upgrades if necessary?
I bought FSD for my MYP for $5k (preordered when AP was 3k and FSD was an additional 5k, then they made AP standard for all cars)
As others have noted, Elon confirmed that no hardware upgrades will be provided for pre-paid FSD owners. While things could change in the future, I doubt we'll see new cameras for our cars. Considering the current state and price, I don't see the benefit of purchasing upfront.

 

[andyzdeman]

Stop being delusional? You need to realize you are completely wrong.

You have zero evidence for your fan fantasy. Tesla hasn't upgraded anything for the last 4-5 years. HW2 -> HW2.5 was a special case. That was for cars made before 2019...

You get absolutely nothing for buying FSD upfront except walked backed promises and a hole in your bank account.

They upgraded the cameras for those who own FSD on legacy HW2-3. I literally had it done on my car for free.
These replies are constantly proving my point about lack of knowledge here, Jesus.

 

[andyzdeman]

Now can you kindly stfu

 

[spacecoin]

Now can you kindly stfu

No one is arguing that Tesla USED TO upgrade cameras on HW2 cars back in the day. And even HW2.5 to HW3. If you did listen to Tesla and the people in this thread, you'd understand that they do not upgrade anything on cars made late 2019 and onwards. That's over four years ago.

Claiming that buying FSD upfront gives you "free camera upgrades" this is plain wrong and misleading. Simple as that. There are no such indications not guarantees from Tesla, and they've said explicitly they won't upgrade HW3 cars to HW4 cameras.

 

[andyzdeman]

No one is arguing that Tesla USED TO upgrade cameras on HW2 cars back in the day. And even HW2.5 to HW3. If you did listen to Tesla and the people in this thread, you'd understand that they do not upgrade anything on cars made late 2019 and onwards. That's over four years ago.

Claiming that buying FSD upfront gives you "free camera upgrades" this is plain wrong and misleading. Simple as that. There are no such indications not guarantees from Tesla, and they've said explicitly they won't upgrade HW3 cars to HW4 cameras.

You said i was delusional and Tesla didn’t upgrade anything in 4-5 years. I had mine done in April.

Nice try at moving the goalposts though.

 

[Hiline]

I love FSD. I didn't want to pay for a subscription because this would result in too many decisions later on. I wanted to have my peace of mind by just having FSD for as long as I have my car. Probably not the financially optimal decision, but saves me a lot of decision-making energy that I can use on bigger things in life.

 

[azred]

At $199, I can subscribe to FSD for 5 years before the total cost is equal. I'm likely switching cars in 5 years. I'm also not paying the full amount up front. I might pause the subscriptions 2 months of the year where I'm on vacation or just don't drive much, making the total time longer than 5 years. What am I missing. Why would I want to buy FSD with a vehicle?

I have no opinion regarding your decision but one factor that may be overlooked by some people: We traded our 1/2018 3 with FSD for a new Y in August during the third quarter “one-time only” opportunity to move FSD to the new car. There is no way to predict the future but I certainly wouldn’t be shocked if Tesla repeats that offer, would you? Seems like a good way to get repeat business, especially as other EV models become more competitive and numerous — and perhaps most importantly are given access to Tesla Superchargers. (Until Supercharger access is available I wouldn’t consider any EV but a Tesla, but once access is given I would definitely consider other EV’s.)

P.S. I paid $5000 and $7000 for EAP/FSD on my 2016 and 2018 cars. Would I have paid $15,000 or even the current $12,000 for each car? No chance, especially when I wanted the software on two cars.

 

[spacecoin]

Nice try at moving the goalposts though.

I'm moving goal posts? If it wasn't clear I was referring to cars made the last 4-5 years. Your statement that I responded to are completely misleading in a thread that in about sub vs buy in late 2023.

Elon has said that hw3 (computer, cameras) won't be upgraded to a later version because of cost.

Anyway you all fail to miss that owning FSD has benefits beyond the software use in the present. Full FSD ownerships means they maintain the hardware at a standard that can support ever improving software in perpetuity. You can’t put a price on this as we don’t know how long that can continue.

The bolded statement is completely false. There are no such guarantees, quite the contrary. If you stand by this statement, then please provide a link that supports the claim.

 

[andyzdeman]

I'm moving goal posts? If it wasn't clear I was referring to cars made the last 4-5 years. Your statement that I responded to are completely misleading in a thread that in about sub vs buy in late 2023.

Elon has said that hw3 (computer, cameras) won't be upgraded to a later version because of cost.


The bolded statement is completely false. There are no such guarantees, quite the contrary. If you stand by this statement, then please provide a link that supports the claim.

Ffs dude. Give up.

Did you even read the bold!? What I wrote is pretty precise.

To date they HAVE upgraded the hardware of full FSD owners to support the FSD software. HW3 supports the current software.

You’re bringing HW4 into it unnecessarily and probably disingenuously. HW4 isn’t required for FSD software to work.

 

[spacecoin]

To date they HAVE upgraded the hardware of full FSD owners to support the FSD software. HW3 supports the current software.
You’re bringing HW4 into it unnecessarily and probably disingenuously. HW4 isn’t required for FSD software to work.

At best you are hoping that Tesla may upgrade the car to whatever is required for autonomy in 10 years. Your hope isn't a reasonable basis for advising people to buy over sub since it's completely unfounded and contrary to what Tesla has stated for cars made the last four years ("we won't upgrade, too costly").

 

[PianoAl]

IBTL

After just a few days of driving the car through Los Angeles and Orange County traffic, am so happy I did not spend the money of FSD.

My relevant experience: After the first few days of using FSDb, I found it a bit scary and not relaxing to use. It made driving more stressful, not less. But that changed, and now I use it all the time. I always have my hand on the wheel, but I trust it a lot.

I'm not clear on why my perspective changed. My guess is that at first, when it did things differently from how I would do them, I saw it as scary or "trying to kill me." Later, I accepted its behavior as being different from my style of driving, but acceptable. Also, perhaps I learned that it will recover from what seems like disastrous behavior.

Here's an example on a small road I drive frequently:

When driving in the direction of the arrow, the car always slows to a stop at the yellow circle, presumably because the road looks like a T-intersection although it is not.

But the other thing it does 50% of the time, is make a sudden jog towards the edge of the road as shown by the red line. The first time this happened, the wife screamed and I grabbed the wheel. Totally scary, and enough to make someone decide not to use FSDb. But in future instances, I cautiously let the car do its thing, and it quickly corrects itself. That is, it seemed that it was going to drive off the road but it did not. This is an example of something that was initially scary but which I got used to. Also, I now just hold down accelerator at the yellow circle, and the car does fine.

Now, driving in a rural, low-population area is very different from driving in LA, but my point is that there is an adjustment period. I have recently used FSDb in cities (e.g. San Francisco and Santa Cruz) with few issues.

 

[brkaus]

Now, driving in a rural, low-population area is very different from driving in LA, but my point is that there is an adjustment period. I have recently used FSDb in cities (e.g. San Francisco and Santa Cruz) with few issues.

I recently taught both of my daughters to drive. No adjustment phase needed FSDB.

 

[RTPEV]

Did nobody else buy FSD because they wanted to see it succeed? It is estimated that 3,700 people die in auto accidents every day around the world. Surely throwing some money at a company intent on making autonomy work is worth a little treasure.

I threw $2K at it because I wanted to see it succeed, although not for the reason you listed, but rather because I would like to see full self driving become reality by the time I am older and unable to safely drive myself (hopefully this is still a long way off). Of course that was back in the days when Tesla was still in "bet the company" mode. This is no longer the case (they can certainly afford to fund their own R&D these days), and $2K was about as much treasure as I was willing to part with the fund that dream. If it hadn't been for a desperate fire sale, I wouldn't have bought it.

 

[RTPEV]

Re: the guarantee of hardware upgrades if you buy FSD

I shouldn't enter into this argument, because it seems that one of the participants' is fairly combative when it comes to alternative opinions being presented, but yes, upgrades to HW3 and any camera updates needed to the HW3-level cameras were definitely a one-off. Elon has said it himself that all the hardware necessary for FSD is already present in the car. Granted, he said that before and had to eat crow, and pay for it in the form of free HW3 upgrades for people that bought FSD, but recently the posturing has been along the lines of "FSD is what it is, and future hardware upgrades will enable it to operate "better"). So all that's going to happen going forward is that they are going to redefine what "FSD" means such that whatever HW3 can do meets the definition of "FSD". If there is a capability that comes along that is only available on HW4 or later vehicles, Tesla will simply deny that that capability was ever part of the "FSD" that HW3 and earlier buyers bought.

Now I acknowledge that this is just speculation on my part, and I could be wrong. But so is any statement that Tesla is obligated to upgrade vehicles in the future.

 

[David99]

Now it's down to $99 a mont for full self driving. That makes buying it outright even less attractive. In fact I would be upset if I had spent $12k on it just 6 months ago when I got my car. That's 10 years of subscription.

I assume they will lower the price for buying FSD some time later this year as well.