Amazing Core Tesla Battery IP - 18650 Cell

[brianman]

The chiller and battery pack cooling system is designed to remove the head from the Performance model, meaning, it does a even better job on the standard 60 and 85 kWh versions.

Can you elaborate on this? My interpretation is "P85 is deliberately gimped" but that seems like an odd choice for Tesla to have made.

 

[Shumdit]

Can you elaborate on this? My interpretation is "P85 is deliberately gimped" but that seems like an odd choice for Tesla to have made.

I read it as the cooling system was designed to handle the thermal stresses of the P85, so the lesser loads of the s85 and s60 means its easily able to handle the cooling requirements of those models. It would be like putting the 3 row aluminum radiator that the big block needs on the inline 6 equipped model: overkill, but still doing no harm.

 

[brianman]

I think I interpreted "head" as something more than a typo for "heat". Hence the confusion.

 

[Shumdit]

I think I interpreted "head" as something more than a typo for "heat". Hence the confusion.

I am going with typo, but he could be from across the pond originally. They sometimes have creative terminology over there (and I am sure they say the same about us Yanks!)

 

[islandbayy]

I think I interpreted "head" as something more than a typo for "heat". Hence the confusion.

Correct, hit wrong key, auto-spell check got me again

Yes, the chiller is designed to remove the HEAT from the P85, so it does a even better job on the standards.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Correct, hit wrong key, auto-spell check got me again

Yes, the chiller is designed to remove the HEAT from the P85, so it does a even better job on the standards.

I love your picture with the product clearly marked "CONFIDENTIAL".

 

[Discoducky]

I love your picture with the product clearly marked "CONFIDENTIAL".

Typo for CONGENITAL Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[islandbayy]

I love your picture with the product clearly marked "CONFIDENTIAL".

I had gotten permission to take and share pictures of the device. In fact, A photo of Me, and Joel Christensen holding that unit is on the front cover of the Biz Times Magazine.
Due to copyright, I cannot post the picture (They know where I live @_@ ) But here is a link to the digital copy of the Magazine. http://biztimes.com/article/20130930/MAGAZINE02/130929821/-1/magazine02

 

[artsci]

I'm very grateful for your post CapitalistOpressor. It's been a fascinating read, and one the very best threads on this site.

 

[lolachampcar]

CO is one of the reasons to read this forum for sure!

 

[DonPedro]

CO is one of the reasons to read this forum for sure!

But... but... where is he??

 

[pfq1982]

But... but... where is he??

Maybe gone forever after the ridiculous way he was treated by some members on the Tesla fire thread.

 

[scaesare]

Maybe gone forever after the ridiculous way he was treated by some members on the Tesla fire thread.

Indeed. Not only was he somewhat vilified for expressing his opinion early on that the video was indicative of a battery fire, he was then treated disrespectfully after his hypothesis was confirmed, IMO.

I hope he realizes that view is not shared by all here, and continues to participate.

 

[Volker.Berlin]

Incorrect, the battery pack is LIQUID cooled. In fact, shares the same cooling system as the passenger compartment.

Not sure about the second sentence here... AFAIK there are two chillers in the front of the Model S, one left and one right, with the "blinds" opening and closing independently. It is my understanding that one is responsible for the passenger compartment and the other is responsible for the battery pack. I have no authoritative source for that information, though.

 

[islandbayy]

Not sure about the second sentence here... AFAIK there are two chillers in the front of the Model S, one left and one right, with the "blinds" opening and closing independently. It is my understanding that one is responsible for the passenger compartment and the other is responsible for the battery pack. I have no authoritative source for that information, though.

I got my info from the guy responsible for the design and production of the chillers. I'm just passing what I was told. Could be incorrect, but thats what I was told.

 

[Volker.Berlin]

I got my info from the guy responsible for the design and production of the chillers. I'm just passing what I was told. Could be incorrect, but thats what I was told.

Sounds like a great source. Any explicit explanation for why there are two chillers and how they share tasks?

 

[qwk]

I got my info from the guy responsible for the design and production of the chillers. I'm just passing what I was told. Could be incorrect, but thats what I was told.

There is only one chiller mounted on the frame rail.

 

[neroden]

Very good read. So Tesla is protecting themselves from copycats. However, would they draw fire if they tried to sue someone for copying their pack after Elon's multiple quotes along the lines of "We want to get everyone building electric cars"? I fully support them defending the hard work they've done whilst the automakers sat on their behinds, I'm just wondering if his altruistic comments may come back to bite them in their own behinds.

Given how slowly the other car companies are catching up with Tesla, they may not get around to copying this until the patents expire.

CapitalistOppressor: I very much appreciate the detailed run-through of the patents. Thank you. What is clear is that Tesla's design principle is to expect some of the cells to "go bad", and deal with it. This is different from anyone else's approach, and it's more *robust*.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that the cost of the internals is cheap. As far as I can tell they are manufactured at a Fab (or Fabs) in Japan, and then the internals are shipped to China for assembly into a battery. (if anyone knows differently, feel free to speak up)

Panasonic (or any business) does not make production decisions like this lightly. They consider this workflow to be the most economical method the build the batteries. Given that, I can think of two reasons to build the cores in Japan.

Just thought of something here. The battery cores -- unprotected -- are shipped from Japan to California for assembly. During this time, there are huge pallets of "simplified", explosion-prone batteries, with no protective Tesla pack around them, on ships and trucks and sitting around at the factories. Is *this* a real fire hazard?...

 

[hcsharp]

...Just thought of something here. The battery cores -- unprotected -- are shipped from Japan to California for assembly. During this time, there are huge pallets of "simplified", explosion-prone batteries, with no protective Tesla pack around them, on ships and trucks and sitting around at the factories. Is *this* a real fire hazard?...

I've often wondered about this. If one cell starts leaking around one of it's seals, it would catch fire. If there are other cells around it, not compartmentalized like they are in a finished pack, you have a recipe for a large runaway fire. I wonder what precautions they take.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There are existing lithium battery cell shipping regulations already. Basically they have to be packed in such a way that it's not possible for inter-cell short circuit (individual plastic packaging and/or caps) and the packaging has to survive a 1.2 meter drop test in all orientations (without damage, short circuits, or release of contents). This is the air one, but I'm guessing the sea one is similar.
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx

When you are shipping a whole finished pack, then the pack itself has to pass UN tests.