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Any hack to remove the autopilot nag?
- Thread starter Zorak03
- Start date
Who in their right mind uses AP to drive along the side of the highway? are you out of your mind?
Are you living outside of the US? Lane 2 is not the pullover lane located on the side of the beltway
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It’s not clear what you want to debate or have proven. Since you keep talking about other types of cars, etc.
I want to limit the comparison to a particular Tesla vehicle, with nag defeat, and without nag defeat, and compare relative safety in the two cases. Do you want to consider (and debate, if necessary) that comparison?
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
The Tesla with nag defeat is less annoying to drive to an already attentive driver (Because AP can’t be trusted past a student driver — Which it effectively is..)
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Ah- so you didn't actually read any of the proof actually given to you about Teslas hitting cars parked on the side of the road on highways when on AP despite you having asked for them.
Thanks for confirming even when given proof of being wrong you don't bother to attempt looking at it.
I want you and others to limit the issue at hand to issues specifically related to Tesla. Having seizures and drivers choosing to sleep sure isn't Tesla vehicle specific.... Because if 100 other makers cannot design a car to save a life if a driver sleeps, not sure why we are overemphasizing that it can happen in that 101th carmaker: Tesla. Don't expect them to save the car world, just pay attention while you're driving instead
NO!! I told you I stopped reading your mess after I caught you a couple of times just tying silly madness on this thread. Theres just no credibility to the things you say so I skip over them. So no I didn't read that, and no I'm not gonna read much more of what you say. Do you understand that?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except for the fact having a seizure or sleeping is safer in a Tesla using AP if you don't use the nag defeat
Because in that case the car will safely pull over to a stop and put on the hazard lights.
Whereas WITH a nag defeat it'll just keep going and potentially kill one or more people because it does so.
You were even given half a dozen examples of a Tesla on AP hitting, for example, stationary things on the shoulder of the road when they were in AP without an attentive driver- just as you would be with the NAG DEFEAT if you were asleep or otherwise unconscious for medial reasons.
So you've been shown the hack is more dangerous, and shown repeated, specific, examples of situations where it'd objectively be so.
But of course you then admitted despite asking for examples you then refused to actually read them
So...there's that.
Right- like I said- you only read part of a post, don't even understand that part, then reply as if the whole thing is "silly" and you dismiss it.
Even posts giving you literally the evidence you yourself asked for
That you admit you don't bother to read.
yeah- I think at this point everybody understands what you're doing
PACEMD
Active Member
Replying with the most common and rudimentary of logical fallacies does little to support an argument. A fragile ego dependent on being right can only be repaired by the hard work required to actually be right...........spinning the wheels gets you nowhere..........at some point you have to get out and push........
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I've been watching this thread for a while, even made a couple jokes about using a heavy bottle of Colt 45 to defeat the nag. I drive long distances all the time, almost 60,000 miles, in my Tesla Model 3. I do agree that having to continuously torque the wheel can be very tiresome and even make my wrists hurt. I really wish Tesla would come up with a better solution as I always keep my hands on the wheel and apparently that is not good enough and you must apply torque to stop the nagging. I really wish Tesla would implement something better such as upgrading the interior camera, capacitive sensors in the steering wheel, something or anything than the current solution.
I agree with many here that using a defeat device, even the "safe ones" that attached by velcro and are out of the way can lead to accidents as "full self-driving" is nowhere near safe enough at the current time. I bought the full self-driving package and I believe Tesla will achieve this someday, however we all need to remember that even with HW3 the vehicle is not capable of full self-driving without an attentive driver.
Take for example the many times when I've been on autopilot and I'm driving directly into the sun that is low on the horizon or when the radar gets obscured by snow accumulating on the front of the vehicle, the car will immediately drop out of autopilot and tell you to take over driving, in this instance the car will fly off the road and you will crash. Also the incidences where the vehicle has hit unrecognized obstacles, it is simply not safe to defeat the nag.
I agree with many here that using a defeat device, even the "safe ones" that attached by velcro and are out of the way can lead to accidents as "full self-driving" is nowhere near safe enough at the current time. I bought the full self-driving package and I believe Tesla will achieve this someday, however we all need to remember that even with HW3 the vehicle is not capable of full self-driving without an attentive driver.
Take for example the many times when I've been on autopilot and I'm driving directly into the sun that is low on the horizon or when the radar gets obscured by snow accumulating on the front of the vehicle, the car will immediately drop out of autopilot and tell you to take over driving, in this instance the car will fly off the road and you will crash. Also the incidences where the vehicle has hit unrecognized obstacles, it is simply not safe to defeat the nag.
I'm going to be deliberately blunt here...
Anyone using any nag defeat device in a Tesla is an idiot. Plain and simple. There are no excuses, none, for using such a device. If the reminders appear to be coming too often, get the car looked at. If you dont like the nags, dont use AP, or buy a different car. Really.
All you need do is hold the steering wheel with one hand, with just enough force to slightly resist the small steering corrections from AP. After a while its an automatic action. Too hard for you? Seriously???
Nag defeat devices are potentially deadly. Deadly for the driver. Deadly for other drivers (and passengers). Worse, they will encourage the "we should legislate to make this illegal!!" crowd who take every instance of drivers acting like idiots (real or faked) to try to penalize the rest of us who drive and use the car features responsibly.
(.. blunt mode off)
Anyone using any nag defeat device in a Tesla is an idiot. Plain and simple. There are no excuses, none, for using such a device. If the reminders appear to be coming too often, get the car looked at. If you dont like the nags, dont use AP, or buy a different car. Really.
All you need do is hold the steering wheel with one hand, with just enough force to slightly resist the small steering corrections from AP. After a while its an automatic action. Too hard for you? Seriously???
Nag defeat devices are potentially deadly. Deadly for the driver. Deadly for other drivers (and passengers). Worse, they will encourage the "we should legislate to make this illegal!!" crowd who take every instance of drivers acting like idiots (real or faked) to try to penalize the rest of us who drive and use the car features responsibly.
(.. blunt mode off)
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
If it was good enough for AP1 to not nag often as originally conceptualized, it’s good enough for AP2+. I don’t feel it’s good enough to trust like that but at the same time don’t think the nags should be as frequent nor pervasive as they are.
That's fine, but defeating it is so so dangerous. For everyone.
People were doing stupid things when the nag time had a longer interval.
Tesla and the regulators responded by tightening up the nag times.
All it takes is for a couple of stupid people to do something that hurts or kills someone for FSD to be delayed indefinitely.
Safety features are there for a reason.
Tesla and the regulators responded by tightening up the nag times.
All it takes is for a couple of stupid people to do something that hurts or kills someone for FSD to be delayed indefinitely.
Safety features are there for a reason.
Fernand
Active Member
The only safe way to drive on any AP is for 1) your attention to be on the road and 2) your hand(s) to be in position to operate the controls and steer with full force in an instant, like to dramatically swerve to avoid an accident. THAT is what really matters, not what fuzzy dice or little pagodas (1) people hang from the rear view mirror, or other parts of the car, including the steering wheel.
There are only a few hand positions that make an instant transition possible, 3:00 seems ideal. Why? because the controlling right wand, the roller, the car to car distance adjust and the steering wheel itself all meet there. And only there. I don't know about lefties, I imagine software could easily flip right 3:00 and left 9:00 sides.
Hands on your lap etc, and all the proudly reported and shown "hack" positions, like at the bottom of the wheel, may satisfy the Nag, but do not provide the ability to immediately and forcefully take control. These hand positions are unsafe, because they require slow hand repositioning to regain full manual control. They actually aim to bypass the nag while hypocritically seeming legit, and they put everyone in more danger than someone properly holding the wheel and paying attention, with or without some counterweighting on the wheel.
(1) IMHO full-sized rear view mirror pagodas obscure view of the road and are thus very very bad.
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There are only a few hand positions that make an instant transition possible, 3:00 seems ideal. Why? because the controlling right wand, the roller, the car to car distance adjust and the steering wheel itself all meet there. And only there. I don't know about lefties, I imagine software could easily flip right 3:00 and left 9:00 sides.
Hands on your lap etc, and all the proudly reported and shown "hack" positions, like at the bottom of the wheel, may satisfy the Nag, but do not provide the ability to immediately and forcefully take control. These hand positions are unsafe, because they require slow hand repositioning to regain full manual control. They actually aim to bypass the nag while hypocritically seeming legit, and they put everyone in more danger than someone properly holding the wheel and paying attention, with or without some counterweighting on the wheel.
(1) IMHO full-sized rear view mirror pagodas obscure view of the road and are thus very very bad.
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Tesla on Autopilot = Cameras/Radar/Compute is better than LIDAR.
Tesla on Driver Attention = Humans/Oranges torquing the Steering Wheel is better than Cameras/IR/Compute.
I don't get it.
Tesla on Driver Attention = Humans/Oranges torquing the Steering Wheel is better than Cameras/IR/Compute.
I don't get it.
Pretty simple. Cameras for driving = distinguishing big objects and doing movement computations. Cameras for attention = distinguishing alertness and attention from subtle facials cues under makeup, glasses, and varying lighting. Which do you think is harder?
Moving steering wheel is simple, robust, and unambiguous, or do you fancy having AP disengage every time you frown???
The point is, the steering wheel nudge is an active test; you must prove to the car you are alert by performing an action. A camera trying to guess your attentiveness is a passive system, which is far less robust and certain. That's why we have dead-man brakes on trains and active acknowledge of alarms on medical monitoring devices (to name just two examples).
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I saw this tip on a fb post and tried it and it totally works for me... If I keep my right hand on the steering wheel at the 5 o'clock position, or left hand on the 7 o'clock position, I don't get nagged at all.
How's that torque sensor working out so far?
Better solution; do both. Camera/IR and Hand Sensor.
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(1) That's a fake video. Do fact checking first.
(2) How did they fake it? USING A NAG DEFEAT DEVICE. Which only highlights my original point.
(3) Good luck getting the camera attention system to work without massive false negatives.
Yep, exactly what I do. I have to say I rate this whole thing as a total first-world problem. The car is driving for you. The car is changing lanes for you. The car is navigating for you. The car is watching for bad drivers swerving into you. The car is playing music for you.
All you have to do is hold the wheel. Gently. And apparently it's too much for some people. (facepalms)
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