billarnett
Member
Perhaps. We will probably never know the details of the algorithms. But it is clear that the two at least have different thresholds.
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Anyone else find TACC still not trustworthy?
- Thread starter gordo
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Perhaps. We will probably never know the details of the algorithms. But it is clear that the two at least have different thresholds.
After 3 cars cut me off yesterday while using TACC, I realize its a system that is not completely trustworthy.
If a car cuts you off and is not completely 100% in your lane (halfway cutting into your lane) the car will not sound the Collision Avoidance system or emergency braking. Ask me how I know, as I had to slam on my brakes 2 out of 3 times I was cut off in slow stop and go 10MPH-25MPH traffic. If I didn't intervene the car was going right into the back of them.. I came within inches.. even the parking sensors showed STOP lol
Something needs to be fine tuned for when cars are entering in your lane and getting too close.. it only wants to react when the car is completely inside the lane and has no care about cars halfway in the lane or straddling the lines of the lane.
If a car cuts you off and is not completely 100% in your lane (halfway cutting into your lane) the car will not sound the Collision Avoidance system or emergency braking. Ask me how I know, as I had to slam on my brakes 2 out of 3 times I was cut off in slow stop and go 10MPH-25MPH traffic. If I didn't intervene the car was going right into the back of them.. I came within inches.. even the parking sensors showed STOP lol
Something needs to be fine tuned for when cars are entering in your lane and getting too close.. it only wants to react when the car is completely inside the lane and has no care about cars halfway in the lane or straddling the lines of the lane.
green1
Active Member
Guess this means that you'll have to use the system as intended, ie as autopilot and not as the self driving that tesla has never claimed it to be.
That said, I'm all for improving it further. (Btw, anyone know how well competing systems handle similar situations?)
That said, I'm all for improving it further. (Btw, anyone know how well competing systems handle similar situations?)
anxman
Member
This is the primary case where I've seen autopilot fail regularly. They need to add a few detection cases:
- When a car leaves my lane, do not immediately accelerate to reach the speed. Hang out for 2-3 seconds before doing so, because traffic conditions often change quickly in this case.
- When a car enters my lane, immediately treat it as if the car was fully in my lane. This detection needs to happen much quicker than it currently does, and be more sensitive to it
- The ultrasonic sensors are far too slow to detect the blindspot appropriately. Currently, I'm not sure that the refresh rate is high enough to properly account for all risks.
Anxman I agree with u on all fronts!
we all know the blind spot system is the worst implementation of any vehicle out there, but has anyone else noticed the beep/alarm when the red lines show up are WAY to quiet to alert u of any pending danger? Totally pointless and way too quiet. At least give a way to adjust the sound level..
we all know the blind spot system is the worst implementation of any vehicle out there, but has anyone else noticed the beep/alarm when the red lines show up are WAY to quiet to alert u of any pending danger? Totally pointless and way too quiet. At least give a way to adjust the sound level..
Danal
electricmotorglider.com
There are no statements in the owners manuals or release notes to indicated TACC in its current form is intended to handle adjacent lane intrusions before they happen. TACC is NOT "autonomous drive" or "autopilot". Not yet. Just for comparison, Audi and/or BMW "Adaptive" cruise also do not handle adjacent lane intrusion. Until somebody ships true "autopilot"... until then... our supervision, including adjacent lane awareness, is required.
I hope Tesla ships a true autopilot first. But I don't have my hopes up.
I hope Tesla ships a true autopilot first. But I don't have my hopes up.
green1
Active Member
Depends on what you expect from "autopilot" based on the name I'd compare it to an aircraft, and I can guarantee that aircraft would not auto-brake for another plane in their flight path at all... So we're already ahead of that, what we're missing is holding the steering wheel for you.It should be renamed to Semi-Autopilot instead of Autopilot
It isn't autopilot. It's adaptive cruise control, which is meant as a convenience to improve your quality of life while YOU'RE STILL PAYING ATTENTION AND READY TO STEP IN as necessary. Like other adaptive cruise control systems out there, it's meant mostly for traveling at highway speeds. Lane intrusions or departures in stop and go traffic or on surface streets are iffy for all adaptive cruise control systems I'm aware of, which is why they're not really designed to be totally relied on for those situations. Like every other system out there, don't depend on it entirely; it can't anticipate situations like a human being can by seeing traffic patterns ahead of the car in front of you or read the intention of a driver in an adjacent lane about to try to cut in front of you. If an accident occurs, you will be liable, not Tesla or any other manufacturer's adaptive cruise control in both the eyes of the law and the insurance companies.
Regarding the relationship (or not) between TACC and emergency braking... In addition to turning off TACC (but not just the "TA" part), you can also turn off emergency braking. It's in the settings. Feel free to test them independently to figure out what systems are doing what.
It was a Green Toyota RAV4 circa 2006-2008. Amazing how that sticks out in my mind. So yeah I think the Teslas stoping distance is a bit better. I don't think it only emergency brakes when a collision will occur. I bet that's just CYA. IMHO it will brake when it sees a rapid deceleration in the vehicle ahead before the gap closes.
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
TACC seems to work quite well for me. I use it all the time. I am not expecting miracles around corners, etc. But what I do find lacking is the lane keep assist. It is amazingly inaccurate. It vibrates all the time when I am clearly in the center of the lane and often does not warn when I purposely test it to see if it will. I keep thinking about turning it off but what if... I certainly do not want active lane keep with the current implementation. I'm not sure, but I think it picks up the cracks in the road as lines. It needs refining, for sure.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
My lane departure warnings are perfect. They always go off only when they should--so it's not a system-wide problem. You might want to have the service center take a look at yours.
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There is an approximately 2-second delay with the parking sensors after first seeing a target before the display is shown. I believe this is so that the indicators don't blink every time a car goes by you in the opposite direction on a 2-lane road.
Khatsalano
Member
The top 3 most dangerous scenarios where TACC is failing for me are:
(1) Lane intrusions: When a new car merges into the lane, even though the human (me) sees the indicator lights flashing, the pre-posturing, the shoulder check of the driver, and the eventual move of the vehicle into my lane, TACC does not notice any of this. It only notices when the intruding car is basically fully in my lane, then it abruptly slows down (or hard brake with collision beeps).
(2) Lane exits: When the car in front of me exits my lane to an adjacent lane and accelerates, the TACC will accelerate my car ... until it loses radar lock on that car and realizes, OH SNAP, the car in front of the exiting car is going at the former speed. Abrupt brake. Beeps possible.
(3) Doesn't see brake lights: The TACC could really benefit from seeing brake lights so it reacts ahead of time. I know this is more difficult, but a human can see not only the brake lights of the car in front of us, but often, the brake lights of 2-3 cars in front if not more. TACC doesn't do this so the braking is abrupt when compared to a human driver with more advance-notice stimuli.
Overall, TACC is much safer though because it doesn't get tired, it doesn't get distracted, and it doesn't get mad. These situations above don't make it unsafe, it just makes it not 100% reliable.
- K
(1) Lane intrusions: When a new car merges into the lane, even though the human (me) sees the indicator lights flashing, the pre-posturing, the shoulder check of the driver, and the eventual move of the vehicle into my lane, TACC does not notice any of this. It only notices when the intruding car is basically fully in my lane, then it abruptly slows down (or hard brake with collision beeps).
(2) Lane exits: When the car in front of me exits my lane to an adjacent lane and accelerates, the TACC will accelerate my car ... until it loses radar lock on that car and realizes, OH SNAP, the car in front of the exiting car is going at the former speed. Abrupt brake. Beeps possible.
(3) Doesn't see brake lights: The TACC could really benefit from seeing brake lights so it reacts ahead of time. I know this is more difficult, but a human can see not only the brake lights of the car in front of us, but often, the brake lights of 2-3 cars in front if not more. TACC doesn't do this so the braking is abrupt when compared to a human driver with more advance-notice stimuli.
Overall, TACC is much safer though because it doesn't get tired, it doesn't get distracted, and it doesn't get mad. These situations above don't make it unsafe, it just makes it not 100% reliable.
- K
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Danal
electricmotorglider.com
6.2 TACC is not "failing" to do this... it flatly does not attempt to consider cars in the adjacent lanes in any way. Read the 6.2 manual. There is no mention whatsoever of adjacent lane sensing.
Will it ever? Don't know...
I feel like the car already waits too long. It seems to me that it is slow to notice when a car intrudes into my lane and similarly slow to notice when a car moves out of my lane. I frequently hit the accelerator before TACC is ready to go when someone finally moves to the right opening up the fast lane.
billarnett
Member
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