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I can agree with that, hopefully, down the road, the software upgrade may get actually cheaper or they continue to roll new safety features into the existing feature set. If the EAP design continues to be improving and shown to be saving lives maybe eventually they will determine it a feature to enable for people and existing-EAP buyers would basically have paid for an early-adopter/beta-test fee.
I realize that is somewhat pie-in-the-sky, but would be cool if it ever happened.
seattlite2004
Active Member
Yeah.....with the NTSB report and AEB being turned off... I'm just gonna pay for batteries and an electric motor.
For reference:
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20170912.aspx
For reference:
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20170912.aspx
Totally understand... I have two Model 3 Deposits; If today was configure day, I would have to say, "Put me back in the queue, and I'll reevaluate things in 18+ months." AP2 seems, to me anyway, to be under-performing - and FSD, which I always hoped meant "take a nap mode" (As Elon has previously stated.) is feeling "iffy". I hope that's an incorrect read of the situation, but for me personally-unless reliable automation is part of the package, the right decision, for me, is to wait a couple years and reevaluate all EV offerings at that time. I see maybe a 50% chance that my deposits might eventually convert into orders.
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eCharcoal
Member
chibi_kurochan
Member
One of the reasons why I fell in love with the M3 was the prospect of
autopilot as Elon Musk presented on 3/31/16. I knew that on the "luxury" model S, enhanced autopilot added about 7% to the price of the car. I expected on the "more affordable" M3, enhanced autopilot should add less than 7% to the price of the car.
Accordingly, I was totally nonplussed when Tesla announced that enhanced autopilot would add approximately 14% to the price of an M3.
Moreover, and more importantly, it is totally inconsistent with the presentation of the M3 as the "more affordable", "mass-market" Tesla. It is almost as if Tesla were challenging us not to order it. Indeed, even though I fell in love with the M3 primarily because of autopilot, I simply cannot, will not, allow myself to pay 14% additional for it.
autopilot as Elon Musk presented on 3/31/16. I knew that on the "luxury" model S, enhanced autopilot added about 7% to the price of the car. I expected on the "more affordable" M3, enhanced autopilot should add less than 7% to the price of the car.
Accordingly, I was totally nonplussed when Tesla announced that enhanced autopilot would add approximately 14% to the price of an M3.
Moreover, and more importantly, it is totally inconsistent with the presentation of the M3 as the "more affordable", "mass-market" Tesla. It is almost as if Tesla were challenging us not to order it. Indeed, even though I fell in love with the M3 primarily because of autopilot, I simply cannot, will not, allow myself to pay 14% additional for it.
Foxy - your don't have to, you choose to. It might be a little less stressful if you started moving over maybe two miles ahead of the exit rather than half a mile? Maybe you'd lose a few seconds of time, but more distance in which to find suitable openings is a good thing.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
See, you're looking at it all wrong. If you're buying the right version of the car it's at most only 10% more
Same here,
On the model S EAP costs $5,000 if you get it when you buy the car and $6,000 if you get it later on - the same as for the Model 3. Same feature, same pricing. Turning it into a percentage distorts the picture. You're getting the same feature for the same price no matter which Tesla you buy, that's what the feature costs.
Foxhound199
Member
Nah, onramp from the interchange comes in on the left side, exit is on the right half a mile away. Until AP can handle the worst conditions, I'm not trusting it in the best conditions.
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
I am considering EAP as well. Already have an X with autopilot, the 3 will just be the extra car
I wish I could be 100% sure that I am not getting it... I really do.
I'm agonizing over the decision.
it just destroys my budget. A budget that has already been grossly violated even before EAP.
I love the technology aspect of these cars and if I do end up deciding to wait...I will look for every chance to add it in the future. Just hate to think of getting my long awaited Tesla and it not having TACC or the ability to back into my garage.
Same here on the budget. I love the neat gadgets on my S, but can't justify it for a 3 as well. Too much technology in my garage. My canoes would start to become jealous.
Notice the word gadgets. Air suspension on cars where once crappy gadgets. Some say still are. Many many years later they are somewhat better.
I need to see more validation of FSD to want to up the price.What economic theory do you rely on for your "distorts the picture" allegation?
The primary determinant for most corporate pricing is to maximize profits. However, the price that maximizes profits is a function of demand elasticity. For a luxury car like an MS, demand elasticity is low, e.g. a $5000 increase in price is likely to produce a small decrease in demand. For a mass-market car like the M3, the demand elasticity should be much higher, e.g. a $5000 increase in price is likely to produce a large decrease in demand. Accordingly, Tesla would maximize its profits on the M3 with a price for EAP lower than $5000.
Moreover, Tesla is not a standard corporation: its mission statement is: "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible."
Inasmuch as EAP has a marginal cost of zero, Tesla is free to price in accordance with its mission statement--producing a price for EAP much lower than $5000..
Sawyer8888
Member
If the past is any indication of the future, (T.V.s, computers, microwaves, cell phones, cruise control) the cost of EAP and FSD will almost certainly decrease. It won't happen overnight. However, as competition increases, the price will do the opposite.
As the supply increases, the price will fall given the same level of demand. Even if demand increases, the supply will rise at a faster rate IMO.
In 1974 [26 years after being invented], AMC, GM, and Chrysler priced [cruise control] at $60 to $70, while Ford charged $103.
Not sure of the original cost of the Debonair, but here is a recent list of the cheapest cars with adaptive cruise control.
With all that said, while the cost of all the advanced technology that goes into a car has decreased over time, and will likely continue to do so, the average cost of a car as a whole will likely continue to increase - until demand falls off the map when true FSD and ride-sharing becomes the norm. This will eliminate the need to own a car.- $103 in 1974 dollars equals $508.95 in 2017
- What is the average cost to have Cruise Control installed on a newer model car? $100 + labor.
Not sure of the original cost of the Debonair, but here is a recent list of the cheapest cars with adaptive cruise control.
- #1: 2017 Toyota Corolla. Price With Adaptive Cruise Control: $18,500
– 1917: The average price of a car in the US was $400 ($8,926.74 when adjusted for inflation)
– Today: The average car price in the US was $34,968 as of January 2017.
(Singularity Hub)
– Today: The average car price in the US was $34,968 as of January 2017.
(Singularity Hub)
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Why do people think EAP has a marginal cost of zero? There are substantial costs to develop, maintain, and enhance software.
Secondly, pricing the software differently based on the car would be like paying more for an app because you have the $999 iPhone, versus the $599 iPhone.
The "marginal cost" of EAP is how much more it will cost Tesla if I buy my M3 with EAP as opposed to without it; alternatively it is how much money will Tesla save if I don't purchase EAP on my M3. In either case the answer is zero. Hence, the marginal cost of EAP is zero.
There are primarily two relevant economic pricing models: 1) pricing in competitive markets; and 2) pricing in a monopolistic markets.
In fully competitive markets, producers are price takers, not price makers; and price equals marginal cost of production (e.g. commodities markets).
In monopolistic markets the producer is the price maker (wholesale diamonds)*; and the producer will set the price to maximize profits--which would be much lower than $5000 as shown in my post above.
Accordingly, depending on how competitive the market for the M3 is, the "market clearing" price for EAP should be somewhere between $0.00 and much lower than $5000.
*In the last decade, OPEC oil prices have gone from monopolistic to competitive.
This would where would would bring in the term opportunity cost. If Tesla lowers the price on EAP/FSD they make less money in simple terms. Many people like to think of the car sale as simply as they make X on this car..... Each item in a car or any item for sale has cost to be born to market. Creating software, maintenance, designing a trunk latch, call it whatever item you want. The item doesn't have to be a car to think about creation of a business or a product.
Let's not go down the road of all they have to do is push it to our cars. That is just pressing a button. That costs nothing.
Does Ford say hey we got a real good deal on foam for our seats. We should pass it along to Joe car buyer? Don't think so. It goes into the bottom line.
When someone created cruise control did everyone say. Well the costs to create cruise control were done like 20 years ago.....It should be free? Maybe.....It is now standard on most vehicles.
Fast forward to all the gadgets offers Tesla are newer to most. They are cool things that have 10 year olds and there mom running to ask questions about your car (today Grand Rapids Supercharger). They need to recoup and profit from these creations before we all think it should be a gift with purchase. So in the future these items will be standard to cars. Just like seatbelts and airbags are now in most parts.
Right now the next seating for hamburgers is a couple nights from now. Would you still like to place an order? Yes please. The price stays the same until we get to drive thru times......
